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-   -   Monster levels (http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4482)

Bluddy 11-15-2011 10:51 AM

Monster levels
 
Shadow, I've noticed 2 things about monster levels that I'm curious about:

1. Monsters of the same archetype are usually spread out over a fairly small range of levels. Type levels of, say, 6,8,9,11,17 is a common spread. Was there a reason for such a small spread vs. spreading them out more fully over the game e.g. 6, 15, 28, 35, 52?
2. Some monsters, such as totems, have a minlevel of 12 and a maxlevel of 30, but they appear on much higher levels and have corresponding HP. How does that work?

Shadow 11-17-2011 10:10 AM

The levels you are seeing are essentially restricted to between 1 and 30 because in higher difficulty levels the level will automatically get bumped up by that difficulty's minimum level. So a monster that normally has levels of 6,8,9,11, and 17 will be 31, 33, 34, 36, and 42 in champion difficulty.

Bluddy 11-17-2011 10:53 AM

Oh I see. But what does that mean in terms of monsters in the game? What does it mean then that orc1 is level 1, orc2 is level 5 etc? Does it mean that I'll only start seeing orc2 at level 5, and then once I reach level 25, I won't start seeing orc2's until I get to level 30 ie. does level here mean the minimum level a monsterType can appear in?

Shadow 11-17-2011 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluddy (Post 27887)
Oh I see. But what does that mean in terms of monsters in the game? What does it mean then that orc1 is level 1, orc2 is level 5 etc? Does it mean that I'll only start seeing orc2 at level 5, and then once I reach level 25, I won't start seeing orc2's until I get to level 30 ie. does level here mean the minimum level a monsterType can appear in?

That does mean you will only see that particular orc type at level 5, 30, 55, and 80. The levels can vary a little bit though.

Bluddy 11-17-2011 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow (Post 27892)
That does mean you will only see that particular orc type at level 5, 30, 55, and 80. The levels can vary a little bit though.

1. How much can they vary? I've seen a variation of up to 3 I think.
2. What happens with all the types that spawn at levels > 25, which is where the difficulty level switches? Will you only see those types if you keep playing at the lower difficulty level past the switch point, or if you go down to deep dungeon levels at around level 25 towns?
3. How would it affect things if instead of giving exact levels to monster types, I gave ranges? So for example Creeping Brood would be from 5-11 instead of just being 5, and Lurking Brood would be from 11-16 instead of just being 11 etc.

Shadow 11-17-2011 05:21 PM

1) Usually only 1 level down or the same level, except if the level specifies a DesiredMonsterSpawn (then it is -4 to +2). This is all controlled by MinMonsterLevelOffset, MaxMonsterLevelOffset, MinDesiredMonsterLevelOffset, and MaxDesiredMonsterLevelOffset in world.gdb.
2) The starting point switches at level 25 but a normal difficulty world can get to level 30 at the deepest part of the dungeon.
3) In theory it should work, like you said the Totems work like that.

Bluddy 11-17-2011 05:46 PM

Does Max/MinDesiredMonsterLevelOffset affect Min/MaxLevel (like in totems) or does it just affect Level?

Also, if I may ask, what was the reason for staggering monsters over specific levels in this way?

Shadow 11-17-2011 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluddy (Post 27899)
Does Max/MinDesiredMonsterLevelOffset affect Min/MaxLevel (like in totems) or does it just affect Level?

Also, if I may ask, what was the reason for staggering monsters over specific levels in this way?

It doesn't effect the monster levels exactly, it just controls what level monsters can show up in any specific level.

We stagger monsters so every monster type can't show up in level 1 (or any other specific level) and so we can have low level monsters (Torva) and high level monsters (Chaos Lords).

Bluddy 11-18-2011 07:06 AM

1. What about dimensional gates? They have a range of level 5 to 100. How does that work with the system of adding 25 per difficulty level?
2. How does the availability of monsters at certain levels affect spawn chance calculations? Let's say monster X can't spawn in level 5. Will X's spawnChance be counted when calculating probabilities for level 5, or will it not be counted?
3. I guess I'm confused about how spawning works in general. Here's how I imagine the process to be:
a. NumMonsterTypesToUse monsters are chosen per dungeon level out of the available monsters at that level and using the InitChance of monsters (which is almost always 1).
b. Those monsters are initialized throughout the level given the density desired.
c. Monsters are spawned as they die based on their SpawnChance, from the pool of monsters available at that level without regard for the monsters chosen initially...? (I thought only the 4 monster types chosen could spawn, but then MonsterFog, TemporalFlux etc would never spawn).
Is this the process or am I getting something wrong?

BTW I'm pretty certain there's something wrong with Scree spawning and I can't figure out what it is. They should be spawning almost as commonly as imps, but I almost never see them in the game. I'm not sure if I've ever seen them spawn, and I definitely haven't seen them in the early levels where they're supposed to be.

EDIT: OK figured it out. ArchetypeFiend is missing in world.gdb.

Shadow 11-18-2011 10:17 AM

1) The range for dimensional gates should probably be 5 to 30 like the totems, although I would guess that 5 to 100 ends up working the same way.
2) Their spawn chance will be ignored in levels that they can't spawn in.
3) It does pick a few initial monster types and sticks to just those types unless a quest forces a new type to be spawned. The reason that you also get things like MonsterFog is because they are specified using ObjectSpawn instead of MonsterSpawn in world.gdb or world2.gdb.

The scree will be fixed in 1.025. I guess everyone gets a new (kind of) monster in the next patch.


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