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-   -   Anti-missiles *groan* (http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19822)

Sedlex 11-09-2012 05:04 PM

Anti-missiles *groan*
 
None of the varieties (beam, flak or missile) working in any way in their current form. Anyone who wants anti-missile can use pretty much any other weapon more efficiently for the same purpose.

I thought that speeding them up would make them more effective by giving them a sporting chance of shooting incoming missiles down, but I now realise it's a targeting problem.

Are there any plans to modify these?

Perhaps we should brainstorm a little to find some ideas, unless Steve already has a Solution™ to make these useful? Other than that, Hive ships could lose the anti-missile slot in favour of decoys - keeps the same idea but gives something that's actually, you know, usable.

Shadow 11-09-2012 05:12 PM

You shouldn't need to target them. They should automatically target the nearest incoming missile.

Sedlex 11-09-2012 05:39 PM

I don't mean to say there's a bug or anything - the missile defense auto-targets missiles just fine.

Here are my issues:

- Target switching: when there are three missiles incoming, the defense doesn't re-target once missiles are destroyed. i.e., one missile goes down, and you need to press the button again to get a fresh lock. This totally defeats the purpose of 0.5 sec. reload, unless I want to break my keyboard.

- Initial target lock: like any other weapon, there actually needs to be a valid target on screen to get a lock and fire. The problem is that missiles are fired in salvos in hot-combat situations. This requires a level of attention/dexterity at the keyboard that's unfriendly to say the least, particularly when you're already concentrating on other stuff like steering and firing real weapons. This may be a personal problem though - I'm more than willing to admit that I hate games that generally tax my dexterity. If I were playing this with a joystick, I might care less as I'd have a half dozen different buttons under my thumb. With a keyboard/mouse setup, it's kind of frustrating.

- No, that doesn't mean I'm lobbying for joystick support. *shudder*

- Specific problem of anti-missile-missiles: they fire forwards only, and are subject to general missile problems, i.e. the turn radius. The weapon needs to fire in front (bearing in mind that's usually not where the enemy is in this game), circle around the player, and sometimes even catch up with the incoming missile after circling behind it.

I honestly think anti-missile defense is a fantastic concept. As it is, I find it's too close to ordinary weapons in the way it works, which means it's competing for the same player-resources to activate and use in terms of concentration (might appeal to some, matter of taste), but more critically it's competing for the same slot with less efficiency for its own purpose.

As a means of defense, I believe what it needs is some degree of automation. Perhaps make it like a time-limited active boost that fires at incoming stuff for a while or something along those lines. Once more though, this is clearly a personal thing - it's clearly your baby! I'll probably just fit a lightning field or an EM shockwave instead anyway...

I'm willing to bet that no one actually uses them as they are though. Well, not unless they fly hive. Which they probably don't, 'cause it's equipped with these. I don't have much in support of my bet, but I'll put a collection of smileys up as a stake: :) :( :P :D

You can have them if two of the forum zom- *cough*, forum regulars post here saying they love missile defense as it stands.

Crisses 11-09-2012 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sedlex (Post 50604)
You can have them if two of the forum zom- *cough*, forum regulars post here saying they love missile defense as it stands.

I haven't tried them in several releases, but this is definitely one thing that renders the hive ship one of the least desirable in the game. I've tried several types of missile defense, again not for several releases, but I didn't find any of them worthy of a slot, and I agree with your dexterity/button-push competition issues. When it comes down to it, it's much more efficient for me to use a normal weapon and occasionally target a hot missile coming up my jetstream than it is for me to have any weapon that ONLY targets missiles.

I agree with the automation + cooldown. Push a button once, 15 or 30 seconds of "missile-free" breathing space, then gotta wait a bit before I can do it again. In other words, "Make it so, Number One." -- I'm busy being the captain. I can't be bothered with targeting incoming missiles all the time.

jerebaldo1 11-09-2012 09:46 PM

Agreed, I can't justify giving up a slot for missile defense. I think that like escape pods, they should increase defense by a moderate amount as well to simulate the counter measures being able to occasionally blunt light or kinetic energy from the other two types of weapons...I also agree with an overhaul to the targeting logic such that additional missiles are targeted after the destruction of the first one automatically.

Another option that seems more fun than the defense increase is to allow antimissile systems to target other ships for minor damage plus a 250-500ms attack(tohit%) decrease after each hit...the autocannon effect of hitting sensors and external weapon ports relentlessly without being able to penetrate most of the material defenses...

edit* and I should say that the inspiration for this idea comes from playing Wargame: European Escalation, where autocannon-armed apcs can suppress tanks even as the chance for damage even to the side armor is very low.

demoss 11-13-2012 04:33 AM

I haven't played a whole lot yet, but one thing I noticed right away was that one of the best missile defenses is an EM pulse. Whether that continues to be true after a few levels I don't know (I tend to take a mine instead), but any dedicated missile defense needs to be better than that.

jerebaldo1 11-13-2012 04:50 AM

Right, agreed, actually an em burst is what I too use currently.


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