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-   -   Items (http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2393)

svetlano 05-25-2010 03:57 AM

Items
 
Well, in the end i decided to not wait for the Steam version and bought the game, loving it so mutch.
I see some minor aspect i would change though: like, for example the drop rate and quality of rare and very rare items.
I feel like they are dropping too mutch and their quality it's just average and very often it happens that i prefer to stick with green stuff.
I'd reduce the drop rate of those and make them stronger, more diversified, particular, and for example with some visual improvements like glowing , shadowing sparkling and so on, so when it happens you drop one, you really feel you got a beast of a item.
Let's say from what i've seen so far, that i'd do a mass items upgrade, insert more sets, actually, sometimes it feels like you are dropping tons of "more of the same" stuff.
I will discuss this better later when i'll be at least 30 hours of gameplay.
But as now, it is for me the only "complaint" i have with the game, and in my opinion in a Dungeon Crowler items add really a big value and keep the game fresh like the outstanding randomization of the world the game already has.

Kruztee 05-25-2010 04:05 AM

You might enjoy the rare magic items mod here.;)

svetlano 05-25-2010 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruztee (Post 14250)
You might enjoy the rare magic items mod here.;)

Well let's say nice mod, but at the moment i think that is the core game that needs a mass items revamp to be the very best Dungeon Crawler out there and i think Steven can do it better than other developers did, so i "beg" him to think about it.

Kruztee 05-25-2010 04:39 AM

I doubt at this stage whether a mass items revamp is on the cards, although Shadow has shown to be open to tweaking specific items in past patches if it can be demonstrated that changes are to the benefit of the game. Certainly, I would say that the drop system is pretty much set in stone these days and won't change much (I doubt that it will be changed at all).

The game is very easily moddable. You can pretty much do whatever you want to the items and drop system. Take a look at the SDK and have a crack at it yourself. If you don't feel confident doing that, I'm sure somebody around here is willing to help you (me included) so that you can tailor the game exactly to to way you like it.

svetlano 05-25-2010 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kruztee (Post 14254)
I doubt at this stage whether a mass items revamp is on the cards, although Shadow has shown to be open to tweaking specific items in past patches if it can be demonstrated that changes are to the benefit of the game. Certainly, I would say that the drop system is pretty much set in stone these days and won't change much (I doubt that it will be changed at all).

The game is very easily moddable. You can pretty much do whatever you want to the items and drop system. Take a look at the SDK and have a crack at it yourself. If you don't feel confident doing that, I'm sure somebody around here is willing to help you (me included) so that you can tailor the game exactly to to way you like it.

I'm not into programming at all, is this a visual system ?
I'd like definitely toy around with it. I still think the items and drop rate needs a revamp in the core game, it's the same feeling i had playing Dephts of Peril, but sure, i can play around with the modding system, could you point me to some clues about it ?

Jorlen 05-25-2010 09:35 AM

So basically you're saying the uniques / set items need to drop less, and be better?

Completely agree and so do many others here and it has been suggested.

svetlano 05-25-2010 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jorlen (Post 14263)
So basically you're saying the uniques / set items need to drop less, and be better?

Completely agree and so do many others here and it has been suggested.

Yes that's what i'm saying, but i more intended to mean rare and very rare items, not having still alot of experience with high level items, but the base concept it's the same.

First time you see yellows, you are like:" WOW i really got something here!"
After 5 - 6 hours of tons of average yellows, that u are often neither equipping preferring greens, you are like: "MEH ! Another one, let's see", i mean, it's too mutch "plain".
They should be alot less in drop rate and Almost ALWAYS better than green ones.
That's what i found even when playing Dephts of Peril too.
That said, i'm still loving the game ALOT, and this is saying something on how mutch the game would become incredible with improved drop rates and improved items (shapes , icons, visual effects, and properties, always randomly generated but with more random properties for each better item pool).
Example: Staff of the XXXX or armor of XxxX (very rare)(icons,shapes, colors randomly generated only from the pool of very rare items possible variables), (X bonuses here randomly generated, that have never to pass a certain total amount or % defined only for very rare items).
Here % possibility of one of the random interactive properties defined for very rare items (right click to use cast some spell level X, recharge X minutes or X charges) or (X% to cast X) or ( equip: X monster respect the holder of the staff and can be tamed/befriended using it :X charges) ecc ecc..
These must be dropped in a certain % almost only killing bosses starting from certain levels, must be definitely really more powerful that greens and must be one, maximum 2 of them.

In my opinion an item system like this(or similar), in conjunction with the greatness of the already existing randomly generated words and events, will really do the game almost endlessy make you coming back for more .

svetlano 05-25-2010 08:07 PM

The more i play the more i understand this is BY FAR the best dungeon crawler / roguelike i've ever played (and i played alot of them, even oriental ones, (if someone knows some of the Chunsoft old glories).
I still think the items issue is something IMHO to be corrected ASAP in order for the game to achieve perfection.
I'd also propose to reduce at least 50% unidentified drops in general to make the game "flow" better. It'a bit painful to pause / unpause identify all ->repeat, everytime u have to discard something/make some space in the bags.
Just an example screenshot of one of the many, rare week drops, and the green it's cloth..


Viliki 05-25-2010 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svetlano (Post 14309)
...
I'd also propose to reduce at least 50% unidentified drops in general to make the game "flow" better. It'a bit painful to pause / unpause identify all ->repeat, everytime u have to discard something/make some space in the bags.

I'm not sure it's the best way to manage it. Manual identify makes you lost a precious time and I think it's better to give up do it for almost all items.

A better way I think is for example to pick only magic items, some standard items are very nice but that's not that often and it doesn't worth pick them except during very first levels. Then don't try identify items and organize your exploration to use a teleport door to go back in town when your bags are full or close to be full. Then use the identify button in a shop to identify all items at once and sell or keep them. And sometimes there are shops in dungeon and are handy for a quick identifying.

Manual identify is better used only for rare cases, for example if you find a rather special item and you aren't in a good situation and hope it will be useful asap.

This flow is totally excellent because it makes you concentrate on the action and exploration and world events, and you make a deep investigation of items found only when you have many to examine. And you aren't much tempted to constantly check last item pick, because the time lost is too important.

Teddy 05-25-2010 08:31 PM

Just to echo what others have said, the only downfall that I've found is in the itemization of drops.

I had one yellow 1H axe that I kept for around 20 levels, simply because higher colored items were worse than that one yellow. The only reason I stopped using it was not because something better dropped, rather I decided to go 2H instead.

When I get together with friends and play co-op, we don't even bother picking up greens anymore.. for that matter we rarely pick up the plethora of coins that drop either unless they are 20sp+. Money in the game doesn't really have a whole lot of value, you spend it to repair or identify. Unless you gamble, the vendors rarely have anything worth buying short of food.

Someone else mentioned sharing of coin drops. I'd like to see coins automatically picked up and dispersed amongst the group. Yes the leprechauns can take a fair chunk, but really, it's a pittance to what drops when you kill them.

Other than that, we enjoy playing DC alot.


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