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-   -   Possible Changes, Opinions, Comments (http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2687)

Bak 08-21-2010 01:40 PM

At least some of the complaints (cave-ins, monster dps) sounds like you aren't sinking enough points into vitality. When I was first starting out, I tried putting most of my points into strength/dex (to equip better items w/o using potions) or int/spirit (to have unlimited mana). And got hammered. The game has pretty good balance, in that some strategy has to be used for the unglamorous skills like vitality, armor, and resistance.

Cave-ins and monster swarms pissed me off at first :p, but I'm getting better at the old saying: "He who lives and runs away, lives to fight another day."
(Closely followed by the Daffy Duck saying: "I may be a coward, but I'm a greedy coward." :D )

Max_Powers 08-21-2010 02:31 PM

I wanted to clarify that I, too, am in favor of creatures ability to dodge/evade/deflect/etc.

I also wanted to say that I believe a revamp of the items should be done as well. To often you will have a legendary item....a freaking legendary item!....and you are like " I feel like I should equip this item...I mean it is legendary....but...I can't because this somewhat rare item is just waaaay better".Maybe just make these items drop less often, and then make them a lot better.

MasterMorality 08-21-2010 03:23 PM

Levelling - Why would you not want it to get harder? I don't see the problem, even if it's a bit spiky at times, that's not a bad thing.

Cave-In's - These have been nerfed so many times in the past, they should be left as they are. You'll learn in time to listen and then run like hell. I manage to evade cave ins without too much hassle.

Unbalanced Items/Drops - I think it'd be easier to suggest a better balancing system for this if we knew how the system generates them.

Mana-Steal Monsters - So you're asking for the game to be really easy?

Intelligence Stat/Spirit Stat -Stats depend entirely on the class(es) you choose. usually at least one of them is unnecessary, usually the spirit stat, because that's most confined to the faith based classes.

Wizards DPS Skill (or lack thereof) - Dud, if anything magic users need to be bought in line with fighters. You can clear rooms SO fast with magic spraying, but it's not nearly that easy with combat.

FloodSpectre 08-21-2010 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterMorality (Post 16264)
Wizards DPS Skill (or lack thereof) - Dud, if anything magic users need to be bought in line with fighters. You can clear rooms SO fast with magic spraying, but it's not nearly that easy with combat.

Yeah I definitely agree with you here, this is another change/improvement I'd like to see in a future patch. I've seen videos of other players running around blasting everything around them with novas without any real fear of reprisal...

Caal 08-21-2010 04:13 PM

Yet another set of comments

Strange Leveling/Tier Progression: when I first started playing, I did notice a difficulty peak around levels 15-25, which decreases after that, then becoming more difficult again after level 70 or so. Now being a grizzled veteran player, I found that using vendors and gamblers more aggressively early helps get better items more quickly, helping to overcome this early peak.

Cave-Ins: I play mostly hardcore, and sometimes need to play with the sound off, so I got used to watching for those little puffs of smoke that signal a cave-in, and getting away with little or no damage. My level 51 and 33 HC characters are still around because of it.

Suicidal NPC/Escorts: For escort quests, after spotting the NPC, you can clear the path to his destination, then go back and accept the escort. You'll almost never fail an escort quest this way. Rescue quests are different. Sometimes they die before you get there, or are down to a sliver of health and are surrounded by monsters. Not much can be done there, but if you see an NPC has a fighting chance, you can give him food and/or a health pot giving you extra time to clear his monsters away. Not foolproof, but does increase your chance for success.

Money Drops: I sort of like the multiple cash drops. I think dead leprechauns use them as a revenge mechanism, since I was killed once by a monster that trailed behind leprechauns that I didn't see due to the large number of cash piles on the ground.

Mana-Steal Monsters: one of the enjoyable things about this game is the uniqueness of the monsters, and part of the fun is figuring out how to deal with each one. Yes dark elf mages suck if you're a mana user, but not so much if you're not. Being attacked by a pack of amorphs sucks if you're a melee character, and not so much if you're a mana user with AOE.

LordBlackangel 08-21-2010 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bak (Post 16262)
At least some of the complaints (cave-ins, monster dps) sounds like you aren't sinking enough points into vitality. When I was first starting out, I tried putting most of my points into strength/dex (to equip better items w/o using potions) or int/spirit (to have unlimited mana). And got hammered. The game has pretty good balance, in that some strategy has to be used for the unglamorous skills like vitality, armor, and resistance.

Cave-ins and monster swarms pissed me off at first :p, but I'm getting better at the old saying: "He who lives and runs away, lives to fight another day."
(Closely followed by the Daffy Duck saying: "I may be a coward, but I'm a greedy coward." :D )

I highly doubt that. The character I'm playing right now is a Vitality/Armor heavy fighter (Abosorbs 100% of damage at level and a 150+ Vitality). And I also pop a vitality potion every chance I get. Its not the damage that bothers me, it's the lack of time to get out of the cave in radius. I think my character is well balanced for a fighter - that's not the issue there.

I have my own thoughts/concerns about how the stats scale up (or don't), but that's a little off the cave-in portion of the topic.

LordBlackangel 08-21-2010 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FloodSpectre (Post 16265)
Yeah I definitely agree with you here, this is another change/improvement I'd like to see in a future patch. I've seen videos of other players running around blasting everything around them with novas without any real fear of reprisal...

I agree that a better balancing must be met - but that wasn't my concern. My concern is a lack of that a stat-based passive DPS skill for Wizards, which I think would help bring them more in line with the rest of the classes (that along with some re-balancing)

LordBlackangel 08-21-2010 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caal (Post 16266)
Strange Leveling/Tier Progression: when I first started playing, I did notice a difficulty peak around levels 15-25, which decreases after that, then becoming more difficult again after level 70 or so. Now being a grizzled veteran player, I found that using vendors and gamblers more aggressively early helps get better items more quickly, helping to overcome this early peak.

I don't subscribe to the belief that if you feel underpowered you simply need to hope for better drops/vendors. It's a development issue that apparently others seem to agree with and therefore should be fixed accordingly.

I do agree that the difficulty seems to be evening out a little better as I progress past 35 or so, but that could simply be because I'm finding better drops - which, as I describe above, is not the answer to an issue like this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caal (Post 16266)
Money Drops: I sort of like the multiple cash drops. I think dead leprechauns use them as a revenge mechanism, since I was killed once by a monster that trailed behind leprechauns that I didn't see due to the large number of cash piles on the ground.

I disagree and think this is tedious, but I will concede that I never thought of it as a dying-revenge-type ability designed to mask the ground. This, however, only bolsters my belief that it should have a toggle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caal (Post 16266)
Mana-Steal Monsters: one of the enjoyable things about this game is the uniqueness of the monsters, and part of the fun is figuring out how to deal with each one. Yes dark elf mages suck if you're a mana user, but not so much if you're not. Being attacked by a pack of amorphs sucks if you're a melee character, and not so much if you're a mana user with AOE.

I'm playing a fighter right now - but that doesn't mean anything in this context. All players use their mana to fight in some way or another (myself included). I've never seen a player rely exclusively on their regular attack and live. It's the fighters and rangers on my co-op server that seem to be bothered the most by this particular spamming special attack behavior. I think perhaps the issue might stem from that particular special attack being so fast. Perhaps lowering the speed at which their distance 'mana-steal attack' travels to the same as some other (flame/bow) throwers might alleviate this. Comments?

Bak 08-21-2010 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordBlackangel (Post 16267)
Its not the damage that bothers me, it's the lack of time to get out of the cave in radius.

Okay. In one of the earlier posts you did mention damage, which is what made me think (incorrectly) that you were under-vitalizing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordBlackangel (Post 16253)
Also, I've never found a reason why I'd want to destroy a healthstone, lifestone, or such. I understand that having an area-attack harm those things lends a certain degree of caution (which is good), but regular attacks?

I've had a healthstone located at a chokepoint in the corridor. Could not fit around it. Needed to hack it away to get to the half of the dungeon with the stairs down.

LordBlackangel 08-21-2010 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bak (Post 16270)
I've had a healthstone located at a chokepoint in the corridor. Could not fit around it. Needed to hack it away to get to the half of the dungeon with the stairs down.

Wow. ... ... .. Just wow. I'm glad this never happened to me or both my character and I would have died from laughter.

Mounting bad mechanics on top of bad mechanics is not a solution. How about just not having the healthstones located in a chokepoint? Many other ARPG's have force-attack buttons/toggles - why not implement this?


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