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  #41  
Old 10-03-2012, 04:42 PM
Roswitha Roswitha is offline
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I don't upgrade that much either.

It would make an interesting set of Achievements. Reach level 25 (50,75,100) with the minimum ship size. Not sure what you'd call the first one, but you could call the rest Master, Grandmaster, and Master Yoda.
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  #42  
Old 10-03-2012, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Roswitha View Post
I don't upgrade that much either.

It would make an interesting set of Achievements. Reach level 25 (50,75,100) with the minimum ship size. Not sure what you'd call the first one, but you could call the rest Master, Grandmaster, and Master Yoda.
Why, Jedi of course!
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  #43  
Old 10-03-2012, 05:46 PM
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PixelLord PixelLord is offline
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Originally Posted by Crisses View Post
So everyone is saying that bigger is better. Well, I disagree, even if it's true (currently) in DO. I'm a woman, not a size queen. I drive a Hyundai Elantra, not a 4x4. I have nothing to prove where size matters. I don't need a game to prove how big I am.

If you have a throwing knife, a shuriken, a pistol, a sling and a shotgun & unlimited ammo, and I have a bazooka and an unlimited supply of missiles, who does more damage? You definitely have more weapons... I'll give you that.

With less crew required, a small ship can arm some pretty awesome light items. But on a large ship you have to arm crew. The light ship has that option, but won't require it.

Larger ships "have more power" because they REQUIRE more power.

Eventually having more slots & lower base stats means you need more slots -- so you can arm a 2nd power plant, 2 thrusters, multiple shields, stat-raising items, as many crew as you can cram on-board, etc. I'm saying a slender build, eliminate redundancy, and run lean (as in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_manufacturing).

I'm suggesting is that a smaller ship might require less armor, less shields -- which is up to the developer -- because there's less mass/squarefootage/volume to protect. That's optional. If that is granted, then the viability of smaller ships goes way up.


Put another way: it's like pitting a martial arts grandmaster against a decorated war vet. The soldier has an assault rifle, grenades, machete--and all kinds of tools of his trade. The martial arts master only has his hands. I still don't want to bet on who would win. Just because the big boy has all the toys doesn't ALWAYS make him the best soldier. And that's the way it is -- pure discipline/skill/knowledge/training vs. tech toys. It's not WRONG. It's just a different philosophy.

Regardless of whether the game shifts to make room for this to be even more viable, I'm trying it out. Not a halfway between, but a "keep it slim" -- because this is a feature-creep issue. The more slots you get, the more you need. I'm pretty convinced of it. And the crew point price goes up quickly. Eventually I can get +20 stat points instead of raising Command a potentially useless level. I see a big potential ROI for it. I'm testing it out, with or without y'all. It does mean having to make some pretty tough decisions for every slot, but I like puzzles. It doesn't have that capitalism trope of "The one who dies with the most toys, wins!" It does take discipline to keep from splurging all those crew points on slots. Just because it's tougher to do doesn't mean there's no payoff.
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  #44  
Old 10-03-2012, 06:02 PM
PrimeIntellect PrimeIntellect is offline
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Originally Posted by Crisses View Post
With less crew required, a small ship can arm some pretty awesome light items. But on a large ship you have to arm crew. The light ship has that option, but won't require it.
Except light items aren't incredibly useful. Like at all.

Maybe with the exception of energy harvesters/whatever.

Even then you only need one, and when you have 8 light slots, that's no problem at all.

EDIT:
Also, by all means, please prove us wrong. I've given it quite some thought, though. Going full command, while boring as hell, is /optimal/. Not only that but it's optimal by a large margin. Unfortunate, but true.
I'd LOVE for other builds to be just as good, but if I'm given the choice between two paths, I'm going to take the path of least resistance.

Last edited by PrimeIntellect : 10-03-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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  #45  
Old 10-03-2012, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PrimeIntellect View Post
Except light items aren't incredibly useful. Like at all.
I've found that both energy boosts & shield boosts are useful so you don't have to dip into your cash for power-ups to the point of breaking the bank. And if you only need one item with ~+200 thrust, it can be a light item, freeing up heavy & medium slots for something else. In addition to a harvester, you could get an energy leecher so you gain energy both when you hit, and when you get hit...so you never run out of energy in the heat of a big battle -- IF you need that. And don't underestimate those items that give you chunky resistances to EVERYTHING. I've learned from other Soldak games that resistance is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT in the late game.

There ARE some nice light items that do things that no medium or heavy item does -- some wanted crew slots separate from light slots so that they could have the slots they'd need to take advantage of them.
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  #46  
Old 10-03-2012, 09:59 PM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Yeah, Prime missed shield conduits, which are the only useful non-crew non-energy-boost light item. Is your light ship even having energy trouble, though?

Also elemental resistances are terrible; you can get like 7% resist to radiation or whatever OR you can get shields, which make you die less against everything. Again not a hard choice.
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  #47  
Old 10-03-2012, 10:39 PM
Roswitha Roswitha is offline
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My current challenge is to see how far I can get using only Tesla coils (light slot) for power. I haven't found any yet and I'm level 13. No command points. No deaths.

(TMTOWTDI for all the Perl users out there.)
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  #48  
Old 10-04-2012, 12:24 AM
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Crisses Crisses is offline
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Originally Posted by Roswitha View Post
My current challenge is to see how far I can get using only Tesla coils (light slot) for power. I haven't found any yet and I'm level 13. No command points. No deaths.
Woot!

I have spent SOME command points on my Level 30 ship using a low-command build. 1 power plant. Doing just fine, several weapons, not a carrier build, still kicking competition butt, now trying a level 50 board (in search of a power plant that can keep up with my Engineering stat).
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  #49  
Old 10-04-2012, 11:26 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Just some further thoughts on this.

In a regular ARPG, you have your stats, and the basic idea is that you can only specialize in one or two. In Drox, since command points compete for the same pool of points, it implies that a ship that gives up command points completely should be able to excel in all stats, and that the more command points you invest, the less you can invest in your other stats. Early on, command point investment is a must -- your starting ship is puny and has no slots even for basic items. At around 5/5/5 or 6/5/5, you basically have enough slots for most items, so that further investment should really rob you of your ability to keep up with stats.

At least, that seems to be the purpose of having the design be this way, pitting stats vs command. The problem is mostly with crew and crew items, which allow you to have more stats the more slots you have rather than less.

Some suggestions:
- Crew could be used for other purposes than stats. Stats could be a minor part of crew.
- They could have personalities, and start up fights with each other. A fight among crew members could be shown by having red icons show up on their pictures. A fight could leave your ship paralyzed at a critical time, or crew members could eject each other (thereby killing each other permanently). The bigger the ship, the more crew it needs, and the more fights it'll have and babysitting it'll need.
- Another idea (and one that I currently really like): Rather than using stats as minimum requirements, they could be doled out like power ie. a budget. So each item of a certain kind could consume a certain amount of tactical, helm etc, the idea being that a captain and crew can only take charge of X things with their skills. You'd literally need crew members to control your stuff. A big ship needs lots of crew just to get its things working, while a small ship can do with a meager crew. This makes it much harder to get a large ship working, and is much more representative of what running a ship is like in 'real life': just because I'm a good captain doesn't mean I can run 4 guns at the same time. Each gun needs to be manned, and if they exceed my tactical budget, I need to get crew to man it. I think this will also make players use alternative items a lot more, since I may have used up my tactical budget but I now have a whole bunch of helm budget sitting there doing nothing. It might also make rare items more worthwhile.
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  #50  
Old 10-04-2012, 01:00 PM
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Crisses Crisses is offline
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Bluddy: I only disagree that early command is a must. You do have to choose your starting ship more carefully for a low-command build though. Race slots become far more crucial.

Last edited by Crisses : 10-04-2012 at 01:02 PM. Reason: added "only"
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