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  #21  
Old 10-02-2012, 07:35 AM
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Crisses Crisses is offline
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Wow -- that's a lot of folk with a Command-first bias.

Here's another way to look at it: If we really all should just be pouring all our crew points into Command, why bother with crew points at all? If that's the way the game is built --favoring Command builds -- then the option to raise the other stats should just go away... Remove crew points, and just raise the size of the ship every X levels. Or give only 1 crew point per level, and raise the ship size/slots every few levels as-if you had spent 4/5 points on command.

Why dangle the opportunity to try different types of builds/ships in front of the player if it really doesn't mean anything in the endgame? If you get to level 100 and you realize the only way you SHOULD have progressed was to throw all points into Command, then why was the game built to give you any other option. I wouldn't tease or frustrate the players that way. If another build can get to level 70-80 and then realize what a horrible mistake they made in putting points where they did -- spending dozens of hours building the ship -- then the game is going to frustrate some players. "I don't want to have to start ALL over again from level 1 in order to get it right!"

My ship is level 30 and doing just fine with 1 power plant, and zipping around the universe and turning on a dime, one-shotting critters, etc. I just spent 9 crew points on command for a light slot...and I might not spend any more on command for the rest of the game -- or I might. We'll see.

What I find offensive is that people are so negative about trying something different. Wow. It's a game. It's about experimenting. If it turns into Diablo's "Here's the best Amazon builds." and someone giving you a formula for how to best spend your points to get X Y Z results -- you become a player testing out something hundreds (or thousands) of other people have done. Grinding the game with no inspiration, no thought, no creativity, no satisfaction other than the "bubble-popping" sensation of watching heads fly at the click of a mouse button.

I made my first 10 ships by the "command-only...well, mostly, at least" philosophy. Your formula. And I'm not satisfied. That's not what I'm here for. I'm here to make sure that this game stands head-and-shoulders above others so that Shadow & his crew make lots of money on a great (and hopefully unique & un-duplicatable) game -- and then they'll still be here to make other great games.
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  #22  
Old 10-02-2012, 08:53 AM
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PixelLord PixelLord is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisses View Post
Why dangle the opportunity to try different types of builds/ships in front of the player if it really doesn't mean anything in the endgame? If you get to level 100 and you realize the only way you SHOULD have progressed was to throw all points into Command, then why was the game built to give you any other option. I wouldn't tease or frustrate the players that way. If another build can get to level 70-80 and then realize what a horrible mistake they made in putting points where they did -- spending dozens of hours building the ship -- then the game is going to frustrate some players. "I don't want to have to start ALL over again from level 1 in order to get it right!"
I never asked Shadow why you can't redistribute crew points the same way you can in Din's Curse. You know, like take points out of strength (for a price) and put them into dexterity or vitality. I'd always thought this would be a good idea in Drox also. That way you can "redesign" your ship for a price.
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Last edited by PixelLord : 10-02-2012 at 08:56 AM.
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  #23  
Old 10-02-2012, 09:07 AM
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I never asked Shadow why you can't redistribute crew points the same way you can in Din's Curse. You know, like take points out of strength (for a price) and put them into dexterity or vitality. I'd always thought this would be a good idea in Drox also. That way you can "redesign" your ship for a price.
It has been brought up in the forums -- for example: why couldn't I downgrade my ship size...? At the shipyard they say "No you can't turn in your Corvette for a Yugo!"?
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  #24  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:00 AM
Valgor Valgor is offline
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There's a few things that could be done to discourage players from only ever spending crew points on Command rather than distributing them across all their ship's stats :

- Reduce the amount of points gained from stat-enhancing components. I have found tons of these, and most of them give double-digit bonuses.

- Reduce the amount of race-specific stat gains at a Command-Up.

- Increase the amount of thrust required to compensate for the increased weight of bigger ships.

- Raise the requirements for components somewhat to make it harder to compensate for the lack in crew points by simply adding crew members or installing enhancements.

- Limit the number of different areas a crew member is proficient in to a maximum of three and give them some other meaningful abilities instead, perhaps not randomly chosen,
but race-related ones such as Dryad crew repairing armour, Fringe increasing energy regeneration, Brunt providing a small bonus to weapons damage, etc.
It's important that these abilities provide a direct bonus, not just an increase in crew points.
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  #25  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:17 AM
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Crisses Crisses is offline
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Valgor -- I like some of your suggestions, and I'm here to defend you when the wolves try to chew your typing fingers off for having suggested to penalize folks with higher Command builds.

Another alternative is more things that are simply better for the smaller ships -- example is thrust -- I have such a small ship for my level, thrust is so easy to compensate for. I need maybe 200 thrust to be smooth sailing. More components with higher +thrust and I could possibly ditch a primarily-thrust item and sail on item bonus alone -- when the big guys need TONS of thrust to compensate for weight.

Maybe increase defense on smaller ships (or decrease defense on larger ships because they're easier to hit).

Increase turn radius on larger ships -- so they need even more thrust to compensate. Or decrease it for smaller ships.

Also there could be some excellent forward-facing weapons that have a small arc of fire in front of your ship, giving an advantage to ships that can turn to face enemies and keep them in the arc.

I expect that being tiny, getting a good cloak, and using bombs will probably last for quite a number of levels.

OH, my son suggests that larger ships would take more energy to cloak than smaller ships -- that makes sense too. Lightning fields, etc. should cost more energy on larger ships. Shield boosts (not power-ups, the items that recharge your shields). Shields could take less power load. Etc. You're covering more space/hull/bulk on larger ships -- it should cost less on smaller ships.
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  #26  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:02 PM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Crisses, by all means play a low-Command ship into high levels. I'd be interested to hear how far you get (and what kind of level difference you can handle). I think we both want the same thing here.

I think it would be fantastic if your "think about crew points" strategy came anywhere close to a boring, degenerate all-in Command build, but I'll bet dollars to donuts it doesn't. There is basically no way that's the case. Since that there's been no movement to change Command and barely any offical word on it, every little while someone pops up to remind folks that yes, it's still bad. And yeah, part of that push involves telling people when they're wrong. It's pretty unlikely Shadow will be able to leave things as they are and balance high level play for both our ships.

All-in v. rare crew Command play is both boring (no stat decisions, multiple levelups with no tangible benefit) and optimal, a deadly combination. Heck, newer players have been suggesting buffs to Command, just so it feels like they're doing something. It's not a good system; I would honestly decouple Command from standard levelups entirely and base it on money or wins or something.
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  #27  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:11 PM
PrimeIntellect PrimeIntellect is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisses View Post
Here's another way to look at it: If we really all should just be pouring all our crew points into Command, why bother with crew points at all? If that's the way the game is built --favoring Command builds -- then the option to raise the other stats should just go away... Remove crew points, and just raise the size of the ship every X levels.
I've been wondering this very thing myself....
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  #28  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:16 PM
Valgor Valgor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumpy View Post
It's not a good system; I would honestly decouple Command from standard levelups entirely and base it on money or wins or something.
Buying new, bigger ships from allied races once they're able to build some themselves? That's how I presumed it would work before Shadow told us of the Command system.

I guess that'd be the most radical option of them all; ditch the Command stat entirely and switch to an "economy-driven" upgrade system.
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  #29  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:20 PM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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That or base Command increases entirely on sector victories, yeah.

(I mean, I'd prefer picking out ships, but victory-based Command would be easier to program and encourage players like me to actually finish sectors instead of leaving as soon as things look unprofitable.)
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  #30  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:41 PM
Valgor Valgor is offline
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Okay, here's the idea :

- The player's choice of race at the beginning of the game determines their initial stat bonuses, their bonuses for spending crew points on certain race-related stats,
the bonuses they get on a Command-Up and the escort ship they start with.

- Better ships have to be bought from allied races once they're able to build those themselves and have a Command requirement.
Ships come with race-specific slots and bonuses to certain stats.

- Only one crew point can be put into Command on a level-up. Additional Command points are awarded upon the successful completion of a sector, depending on the victory type,
any completed quests from Drox High Command and whether it was a challenge sector.
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