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  #11  
Old 06-28-2012, 07:51 AM
longshot longshot is offline
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I think the victory condition is a huge improvement, at least in games where there is more than one viable race, which is hopefully how a vast majority of games will be in the future.

The strategy of just picking a race and screwing over the other races just won't work when there are several built up races. In my current game, Shadow, Human, and Lithsoid are all competing for the lead. I am currently trying to ally with Shadow, but that could turn out badly, since they are at war with Human and Lithsoid. Who are both strong enough that I don't really want to go to war with them, and it is not clear at all who is going to win. Against all odds, Shadow happens to be wining the wars against both races. But that could quickly change, due to a hallucination outbreak that is quickly spreading across their planets, which they have generated about 6 quests for, on top of the other quests generated by effects of the outbreak, like radiation leaks.

So if they lose, it will be the humans and lithsoids. And I have absolutely no idea who the winner of that war will be, if Shadow doesn't keep beating the odds.

Before, I would just let the races duke it out, and ally with the sole winner. You can't do that anymore, unless you can build up your rep in ten minutes. The player has to ally with SOMEONE, and hope it is the right race. In my current game, it makes it a lot more interesting.

Last edited by longshot : 06-28-2012 at 07:55 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-28-2012, 08:15 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by longshot View Post
I think the victory condition is a huge improvement, at least in games where there is more than one viable race, which is hopefully how a vast majority of games will be in the future.

The strategy of just picking a race and screwing over the other races just won't work when there are several built up races. In my current game, Shadow, Human, and Lithsoid are all competing for the lead. I am currently trying to ally with Shadow, but that could turn out badly, since they are at war with Human and Lithsoid. Who are both strong enough that I don't really want to go to war with them, and it is not clear at all who is going to win. Against all odds, Shadow happens to be wining the wars against both races. But that could quickly change, due to a hallucination outbreak that is quickly spreading across their planets, which they have generated about 6 quests for, on top of the other quests generated by effects of the outbreak, like radiation leaks.

So if they lose, it will be the humans and lithsoids. And I have absolutely no idea who the winner of that war will be, if Shadow doesn't keep beating the odds.

Before, I would just let the races duke it out, and ally with the sole winner. You can't do that anymore, unless you can build up your rep in ten minutes. The player has to ally with SOMEONE, and hope it is the right race. In my current game, it makes it a lot more interesting.
Interesting -- that does sound promising. Was this a sector that you developed from the start, or a pre-developed one? It sounds like the new victory condition is really suited for pre-developed sectors where races are balanced, rather than for fresh sectors where helping one side early on (and killing off races early on) can grow your ally into a huge empire, at which point the outcome is more certain.
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  #13  
Old 06-28-2012, 09:13 AM
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Brian Rubin Brian Rubin is offline
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Could you please revert back to the previous victory condition? I had won my sector post-patch, and came back to find that I was now stuck there. It wasn't a good feeling. :/
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  #14  
Old 06-28-2012, 10:46 AM
longshot longshot is offline
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Could you please revert back to the previous victory condition? I had won my sector post-patch, and came back to find that I was now stuck there. It wasn't a good feeling. :/
You can declare war on both the races, then drive outside the sector and wait for ten minutes. I've had to do this twice so far, but that's what happens when you play a beta

As an additional note, it would be nice if the game had an "Abort Sector" button.
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  #15  
Old 06-28-2012, 11:17 AM
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As an additional note, it would be nice if the game had an "Abort Sector" button.
You can abort a sector, just go through the Play button instead of the Resume and create a new sector.
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  #16  
Old 06-28-2012, 11:42 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Nice patch, and I like the new loss condition.

Some more observations about the new victory condition though:

- It effectively turns you into the angel of death. The races may not seek to destroy each other, but you're looking to finish them off. If you see a race struggling, your best bet is to kill them. If you start an early sector and see a race with a single home planet -- kill it off, it'll clear up the later game.
- There's no reason to complete quests for any race but the one you're allied with. Let the quests fester -- it'll just help your allied race destroy them.
- The difference between victory and loss ie. one allied race defeating every other race and one non-allied race defeating every other race is just a faction grind.
Another issue with this victory condition:
- There's no reason to ever help an underdog against a stronger opponent. No amount of money will convince you to do so, since it brings you closer to losing (unless you just want to take the money and betray the underdog).
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  #17  
Old 06-28-2012, 11:51 AM
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Bluddy I think your first 3 observations were really true with the initial win conditions.

I do agree about the underdog part, although that can be fixed. I could do things like make it so underdogs reward you with higher relations changes than the leader would. This would make the decision less clear cut.
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  #18  
Old 06-28-2012, 12:11 PM
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Brian Rubin Brian Rubin is offline
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Originally Posted by longshot View Post
You can declare war on both the races, then drive outside the sector and wait for ten minutes. I've had to do this twice so far, but that's what happens when you play a beta
Aaww, but I LIKE these guys, I don't wanna declare war on 'em. :/ I shouldn't HAVE to either.
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  #19  
Old 06-28-2012, 12:31 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Bluddy I think your first 3 observations were really true with the initial win conditions.

I do agree about the underdog part, although that can be fixed. I could do things like make it so underdogs reward you with higher relations changes than the leader would. This would make the decision less clear cut.
The first 3 observations could be true for the earlier win conditions, but it was mostly up to you. You could approach the goal of unifying the sector either by unifying the races or by having one race dominate the others. Now, they're pretty much explicit since you really want to destroy everything but one race since that's your goal. In other words, your goal is now more brutal than the races', and they're the ones competing!

I think making the underdog reward you with more relations (and gold, if they have any) is a good idea regardless. You want the player to be motivated to fight the leader and help the underdog. However, it won't help that much in this case because even if the underdog likes you, he's still the underdog, and sticking with him vs the race in power is completely against the incentives of the victory condition.

I get that it's hard to come up with solid victory conditions here. That's why I kept coming up with ideas in the 'plays like a toy' thread.

It seems to me that as a mercenary, you shouldn't care who takes over the galaxy. There does need to be loyalty to a race in order to feel involvement, but I feel that loyalty should be to whomever you chose to help. One option is to use random victory conditions to keep things exciting: save this race; make this much money; destroy this race.

Another way would just be to say: do what you do as a mercenary: make this much gold from this sector. Then, you make it such that the leading race pays you very little while the underdog gives you everything he has. Also, make it such that the really good quests can only be offered to you when you're allied with a race and the opposing race hates you. To get the best (and most profitable) quests, you need to declare war on your ally's enemies.

If you don't like using X money as a goal, you can bring back the reputation meter from DC and make X reputation per sector as the goal. Except here, you can lose reputation from betraying allies and underperforming. The rest would be the same as with money above: helping the underdog gives you the most reputation. And to get high reputation quests, you must join an ally and declare war on his enemies. Your goal in this case is to raise the reputation of the Drox throughout the galaxy, and this is something I feel fits both the game and the Drox.

Last edited by Bluddy : 06-28-2012 at 12:33 PM.
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  #20  
Old 06-28-2012, 03:14 PM
longshot longshot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
Interesting -- that does sound promising. Was this a sector that you developed from the start, or a pre-developed one?
I'll let you know when the dust settles...



Yeah, the races are a *bit* more aggressive. Obviously my plan to ally with Shadow failed, since they declared war on me. My current goal for the sector is to try to survive to the next one.
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