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  #21  
Old 06-28-2012, 03:17 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Wow. They all hate each other? I think we've gone too far to the other side with the race relation changes.
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  #22  
Old 06-28-2012, 03:50 PM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Any chance we could make inter-race relation changes be based on actual events?

Would feel a lot better if relations went down because of races actually going around spreading propaganda or colonizing planets other races wanted or "accidentally" releasing monsters in other star systems.

That would give war a real weight to it, instead of everyone at each other's throats because "Hey, it's been ten minutes."
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  #23  
Old 06-28-2012, 03:54 PM
longshot longshot is offline
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Yes, and there are more named monsters than I care to count. It's basically a galactic free for fall, which is actually a nice change from the boringness before. I'm not sure if I would want to play every sector at an intensity level of 11.

There was a lot more propaganda spreading this game, (including against me), which I think had a lot to do with it.

I think that if the races formed power blocs, and didn't break them until everyone else was elminated, it would be about right. That way I could mentally compartmentalize the action, which I have no chance of doing this game. This sector pretty much feels like what happens when all hell breaks loose in DQ, and there is a systematic chain of failure.
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  #24  
Old 06-28-2012, 03:55 PM
longshot longshot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumpy View Post
Any chance we could make inter-race relation changes be based on actual events?

Would feel a lot better if relations went down because of races actually going around spreading propaganda...
There was a ton of propaganda and sabotage this game. The start of the game was peaceful.
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  #25  
Old 06-28-2012, 04:09 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
It seems to me that as a mercenary, you shouldn't care who takes over the galaxy. There does need to be loyalty to a race in order to feel involvement, but I feel that loyalty should be to whomever you chose to help. One option is to use random victory conditions to keep things exciting: save this race; make this much money; destroy this race.

Another way would just be to say: do what you do as a mercenary: make this much gold from this sector. Then, you make it such that the leading race pays you very little while the underdog gives you everything he has. Also, make it such that the really good quests can only be offered to you when you're allied with a race and the opposing race hates you. To get the best (and most profitable) quests, you need to declare war on your ally's enemies.

If you don't like using X money as a goal, you can bring back the reputation meter from DC and make X reputation per sector as the goal. Except here, you can lose reputation from betraying allies and underperforming. The rest would be the same as with money above: helping the underdog gives you the most reputation. And to get high reputation quests, you must join an ally and declare war on his enemies. Your goal in this case is to raise the reputation of the Drox throughout the galaxy, and this is something I feel fits both the game and the Drox.
One thing that's nice about this approach is that it still leaves the gate open for you to do different things in the 4x part of the game. You could have achievements and extra rewards for accomplishing different things, like siding with the underdog, or being the ally of each race at some point, or bringing harmony to the universe without destroying any race, or even destroying every race. Random bonus goals per sector that give you extra rewards and achievements work really well with a reputation goal -- it could really bring out the uniqueness and range of possibilities within the 4x.
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  #26  
Old 06-28-2012, 04:50 PM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longshot View Post
There was a ton of propaganda and sabotage this game. The start of the game was peaceful.
The start of almost every game is peaceful. (Galaxies could start with some preexisting treaties/wars/relationships to differentiate them more.)

Maybe it's just because I play Very Fast, but the way relations decrease naturally over time feels inorganic to me. I want stories about how two races had a great relationship, but one couldn't resist stealing key technology. I want to tell people about how the sneaky Shadow destroyed an alliance with rumors. Maybe one race released monsters in a galaxy to mess with other races, but got caught! (This would not only provide another story reason we're fighting so many monsters instead of interacting with the races, it would also incorporate the "evidence" quests from Demon War.)

Maybe one race can offer another race a bunch of money/tech/info/planets to make peace, or to declare war on another race, because that is something they can do when they have lots of tech and money. Instead, low relations never, ever change without the player spending tons of money on positive rumors (what?).

Instead of having inter-race relations naturally decrease over time, let's just make the races naturally disposed toward behavior that could worsen those relations.

Last edited by Chumpy : 06-28-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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  #27  
Old 06-28-2012, 04:55 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumpy View Post
The start of almost every game is peaceful. (Galaxies could start with some preexisting treaties/wars/relationships to differentiate them more.)

Maybe it's just because I play Very Fast, but the way relations decrease naturally over time feels inorganic to me. I want stories about how two races had a great relationship, but one couldn't resist stealing key technology. I want to tell people about how the sneaky Shadow destroyed an alliance with rumors. Maybe one race released monsters in a galaxy to mess with other races, but got caught! (This would not only provide another story reason we're fighting so many monsters instead of interacting with the races, it would also work in the "evidence" quests from Demon War.)
I agree. Having relations auto-degrade is a huge and gaping over-generalization for the level of simulation Drox is attempting to achieve, and doesn't belong in the game IMO.
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  #28  
Old 06-28-2012, 05:07 PM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Not sure the engine can manage all this, but here's an idea:

Let's say race A has no colonies in a sector, but race B and C do. Race A pays some monster ships to cause trouble in the sector. B and C give quests to deal with the monsters. If you kill the named monster, it drops Evidence of Race A's involvement. At that point you can deliver the evidence to B and C. If we're getting creative, Race A might even want you to surrender the evidence.

If B and C get wiped out, maybe the monsters disappear, or maybe they keep causing trouble and race A pays you to wipe them out. They could even still drop Evidence! It wouldn't serve any gameplay purpose, but it would enhance the "story" of the galaxy.
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  #29  
Old 06-28-2012, 08:29 PM
alstein alstein is offline
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Some things I noticed

Some races listed as dead are alive and kicking.

Also, I think if you have alliances with all the remaining races that are alive, that should count as a won sector. It doesn't right now. You shouldn't have to solve every last quest.
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  #30  
Old 06-29-2012, 05:18 AM
Lyranaar Lyranaar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chumpy View Post
Not sure the engine can manage all this, but here's an idea:

Let's say race A has no colonies in a sector, but race B and C do. Race A pays some monster ships to cause trouble in the sector. B and C give quests to deal with the monsters. If you kill the named monster, it drops Evidence of Race A's involvement. At that point you can deliver the evidence to B and C. If we're getting creative, Race A might even want you to surrender the evidence.

If B and C get wiped out, maybe the monsters disappear, or maybe they keep causing trouble and race A pays you to wipe them out. They could even still drop Evidence! It wouldn't serve any gameplay purpose, but it would enhance the "story" of the galaxy.
Good stuff Chumpy! I agree, let's get the player really more involved. That would make the underlying mechanics shine. Everyone gets grumpy, so just make sure you wipe everyone else is just too simple (boring) for this game.

Why not go the way in addition: You don't pay a rumor, you generate (for money?) a quest that you can solve and then decide who "seems" to have solved it. Dedicate the relation bonus to another race than yourself.
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