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  #21  
Old 07-19-2012, 04:53 PM
Von Paulus Von Paulus is offline
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Originally Posted by silverhound View Post
Over prolonged periods a high chance will become a near certainty, and i really wouldnt want to spend the entire war just ending rebellions to avert disaster.
+1

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Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
In the next build, the weaker races will have a higher chance of banding together against the bigger races.
That can be interesting.
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  #22  
Old 07-19-2012, 05:18 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Actually I believe I made bosses spawn farther away on average.
Sorry, I misremembered.
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  #23  
Old 07-19-2012, 05:24 PM
alstein alstein is offline
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The fun part is the war part to me, but it is expensive, and the quests are to farm resources for that.

Legend/Fear points seem to be take way too long, maybe legend/fear should be upscaled as things go down with tougher bosses.

Power- power is a balance problem right now, it's too gamechanging. The two items I care most about are ramjet drives and power.

One other factor: I think crew pts per level needs to be upped to at least 6.
Too many things you don't get to use- and 6 points would still force choices without forcing unfun choices.
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  #24  
Old 07-19-2012, 05:31 PM
robmack robmack is offline
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Originally Posted by silverhound View Post
I hope you aren't saying that the faction should have a high chance of splitting in half without player intervention if its 2x as powerful as the nearest faction.
That would effectively make the military victory impossible because long before defeating the last opposing faction in the game the faction you are supporting will be twice as large.
Over prolonged periods a high chance will become a near certainty, and i really wouldnt want to spend the entire war just ending rebellions to avert disaster.
The problem you are mentioning occurred to me as well. It would make winning impossible if it always split. I was thinking either the player could mitigate it with quests, or maybe just the likelihood of rebellion dies down with every split of that faction.
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  #25  
Old 07-19-2012, 09:28 PM
silverhound silverhound is offline
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Originally Posted by alstein View Post
One other factor: I think crew pts per level needs to be upped to at least 6.
Too many things you don't get to use- and 6 points would still force choices without forcing unfun choices.
I don't think increasing the total crew pts by 20% is going to solve the problem at all, the real problem is the distribution of crew pts in the command attribute.

As for how that could be solved, i dont know. maybe less points but a level requirement to increase ship size?
Maybe a 'so many sectors completed' requirement to increase ship size combined with less points?
Or maybe every so many ship levels it starts to hand out more attribute points to every attribute? like say the ship levels where you dont get a ship slot, you instead get so many attribute points for every attribute?
I think the real problem is trying to balance it between someone focusing on getting as big a ship as possible and someone focusing on getting a 'better equipped' ship.
Maybe the solution doesn't even require that much change, what if the stat bonuses from increasing attributes were detached from them and go up separately when you put in attribute points yourself, but don't go up when they are increased through upping command and receiving bonus attribute points from the non-slot giving levels? that way you can use the equipment but you wouldnt have an attack improvement, defend improvement, regen improvement etc. forcing you to use those slots to actually fill those roles (besides those slots can probably do it a lot better anyhow).

hmmm, i actually like that last suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robmack View Post
The problem you are mentioning occurred to me as well. It would make winning impossible if it always split. I was thinking either the player could mitigate it with quests, or maybe just the likelihood of rebellion dies down with every split of that faction.
I actually like the idea of the splitting of a faction being a random occurence, not a near guaranteed occurence.
If i had to deal with the (two?) subfactions every time i went for a military victory it would grow boring fast.

Let the splitting of a faction be something that can be caused by the player / opposing factions (especially shadow!) through sabotage etc only, and let the base size of a faction only increase that chance a bit (not the relative size).

Maybe make those rebellion supporting quests etc more prevalent and easier to find (an additional tab on the respective faction for quests that negatively influence the faction that way) and allow us to give stuff to a planet we are at war with when it causes harm.

Also i think we should have some additional reward system that gives more reward based on how well developed a system is when it is completed.
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  #26  
Old 07-20-2012, 02:53 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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- New quest interface: My idea for the new quest interface is to the current quest log, and change it so that the accepted quests are on the left, and the list of all quests in the sector is on the right. The bottom left would be the detail screen. The 'all quest' list on the right would have two tabs at the top, "by race" and "by system". If the "by race" tab is pressed, you get buttons to filter quests by each race or combination of races. If "by system" is pressed, you get buttons to filter by the "current system" and for every other system you know about. Accepting a quest moves it from the right to the left. Failed quests could have their own tab on the right so they don't clutter your quest log, or there could be a 'remove failed quests' button on the left side.

I think something like this is necessary to be able to effectively manage the quests without getting quest fatigue.

- Number of ships & maintenance: it seems like even a race with one dinky planet can afford to fly 4-5 ships around it? Is there a maintenance cost to ships? If not, it seems like there should be one. If a race loses planets or planet production is reduced, ships would have to be dismantled.

- Happiness: the 4x seems like it needs a happiness element (if there isn't one). Races need to invest in luxury and infrastructure (same as in Civ) to keep their populations happy. If they construct too many ships, they won't have money left over for luxuries and their populations will rebel.

- Propaganda: I finally messed around with propaganda and sabotage. After spending lots of money on both, all I got was a quest for unrest, and now I'm waiting for it to develop. It's not enough. If a happiness level was fully simulated, there would be anarchy on the planet or a revolution. It would make the planet vulnerable to attack. At the very least, I should be able to nudge these unrest quests along, and they should have impact on the state of the ships orbiting the planet.

- The Dryads have taken over the sector and the game is fairly slow going. I'm trying to finish this sector, but I'm having some difficulty. All that remains is the Dryads and 4 other minor races. I had alliances with all but two: Talon and Utopian, so I figured I'll go for a diplomatic victory. As I was grinding faction relation, the Shadow (my allies) declared war on Talon, causing me to declare war on them as well. My relation with Talon went down significantly. But the Shadow weren't consistent: they soon made peace with Talon. So now I was at war with the Talon but the Shadow weren't with me. Then they pulled the exact same stunt with the Utopians! Back and forth they went, dragging me into war with them and then making peace again, and killing my relations with both factions. A Diplomatic victory was simply not an option anymore. I couldn't possibly get the Dryad (the only superpower) to fight either the Talon or the Utopians -- they were buddy buddy with everyone, as they always are. So I'm trying to take out the Talon and the Utopians' single planets and it's just not happening. Rumors aren't helping, and every race except the Dryads is too weak to do anything anyway. Both the Talon and the Utopians are somehow able to maintain fleets of 5-7 ships around their meager single planet economies, which means I can't do anything against them.

Suggestions for this problem: ship maintenance should make fleets around single planets smaller. In general, it makes sense to have fewer ships in the game -- fighting against so many ships (both monsters and races) is just too chaotic as well as unmanageable. You have little idea of what's going on around you as you spam your attacks. This is especially true if you have fighters -- fighter numbers should probably be reduced from 5 to 2 (and they should be buffed up in strength accordingly). If you fight one or two race ships, you have some kind of chance. Against a whole fleet, you've got no chance at all.

Races should not be as capricious as they are now. They switch to war and quickly back to peace for no reason. They should have some strategic objective when they go to war -- something you can assist with or hinder.

And I definitely want to see races ally against the strongest race. Hoping to see this in the next patch.
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  #27  
Old 07-20-2012, 03:19 PM
fotan fotan is offline
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That actually brings up a good point.

If I'm in a mutual protection pact, or alliance with someone, and they decide to go to war on another faction, I should be able to say "no I don't want to participate" when they declare it.

And yes, it will break up the alliance or whatever, but this way you will never automatically have to go to war with someone if you don't want to.
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  #28  
Old 07-20-2012, 03:43 PM
robmack robmack is offline
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Hi Bluddy,
That's an interesting story about Shadow, but I have to say this: If you ally with a race that specializes in espionage and spying, and then complain about them tricking you into one war after another, you kinda sound like sucker.

To me this sounds like amazing emergent game play. I mean, they are called Shadow after all.
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  #29  
Old 07-20-2012, 03:57 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robmack View Post
Hi Bluddy,
That's an interesting story about Shadow, but I have to say this: If you ally with a race that specializes in espionage and spying, and then complain about them tricking you into one war after another, you kinda sound like sucker.

To me this sounds like amazing emergent game play. I mean, they are called Shadow after all.
That's funny, but I really don't think that was the intent -- there's something going wrong here.
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  #30  
Old 07-23-2012, 09:36 AM
silverhound silverhound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
- New quest interface: My idea for the new quest interface is to the current quest log, and change it so that the accepted quests are on the left, and the list of all quests in the sector is on the right. The bottom left would be the detail screen. The 'all quest' list on the right would have two tabs at the top, "by race" and "by system". If the "by race" tab is pressed, you get buttons to filter quests by each race or combination of races. If "by system" is pressed, you get buttons to filter by the "current system" and for every other system you know about. Accepting a quest moves it from the right to the left. Failed quests could have their own tab on the right so they don't clutter your quest log, or there could be a 'remove failed quests' button on the left side.

I think something like this is necessary to be able to effectively manage the quests without getting quest fatigue.
This would actually create quest fatigue with me rather than solve it.
  • It cuts down on the amount of room you have, the description of quests tend to be big enough to already force a scroll down in the offered quests window. (it definitely should be remade to look like the accepted quests window IMO)
  • filtering quests by a combination of races doesn't create a greater focus, it actually decreases it causing more quests to be shown at the same time.
  • I don't know if you are suggesting three different buttons for 'by system' (current system, known systems, unknown systems) or if you are suggesting that every system should have a button of their own (in which case i would suggest a dropdown box instead) but this doesn't really help with focus either for me since generally the location of a quest matters far less to me than the type of quest it is.
    Not to mention if you want it filtered by system given or system at.
  • I don't really see a need for being able to see your current active quests at the same time as the quests you can take.
    The whole 'moves it from the right to the left' sounds like eyecandy at the cost of efficiency. I'd rather read the whole quest description and not see it move from the right to the left than seeing it move from the right to the left and be forced to scroll down every quest description.

Actually i made a suggestion on this myself that i think you might've missed.
http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5498

Last edited by silverhound : 07-23-2012 at 09:43 AM. Reason: added a link
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