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  #11  
Old 12-24-2010, 06:47 PM
Nobear Nobear is offline
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First, note that I edited my above post because I'd forgotten that currently things are more complicated, and give crits an added advantage depending on the spell damage range and enemy resistances.

I actually have Common Level 3 -22% cast time gloves, and the -44% ones are Uncommon Level 37. The -60% ones I'm not looking at right now, but they're higher level and a yellow rarity.

The -60% staff is a 108 Dex 100 DPS Mahogany Staff, which is second highest tier of items I think.
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  #12  
Old 12-24-2010, 08:46 PM
Manumitted Manumitted is offline
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Going by Shadow's formula, it seems that the breakeven base Crit for Tore's gloves vs. various single -Cast Time gloves would be:
-CT ----- Tore's Base Crit
22% ----- 29.3% (243 INT)
33% ----- 44% (impossible)

Verdict: Tore's gloves, nice as they are, cannot compete with even a humble 22 CP pair of -22% Cast Time gloves for a pure caster. They might briefly outdo CT gloves of whatever the teen percentage is, 11-13% (97-123 INT). Tore's gloves might work better on a Fighter/Mage hybrid, especially as his physical DPS outstrips his magic DPS. CT gloves only improve magic DPS, of course.

I've seen -44% Cast Time equipment somewhere in the mid-twenties levels. It doesn't take that long, though you do have to be lucky to find some.
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  #13  
Old 12-25-2010, 01:04 AM
Sammual Sammual is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FloodSpectre View Post
The question is, how early do items with that modifier drop? It doesn't seem there's a lot of variety in the % bonus of -casttime items, though they do appear to be fairly rare in any case. I'm pretty much just concerned about balance issues here is all.
Level 18 gloves with -22% cast time dropped for me tonight.

Sammual
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  #14  
Old 12-26-2010, 04:53 PM
Nobear Nobear is offline
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Manu how did you come up with those numbers? I tried to check it this way:

Tore's DPS gain with 29.3% base crit = (29.3 * 1.75 + 100) / (29.3 + 100) = 1.17 = (100%) +17% DPS

-22% Cast time DPS gain: +22% DPS

OR

If already using -60% cast time staff: (1 + .60 +.22) / (1 + .60) = 1.1375 = (100%) +13.75% DPS

Those numbers don't match either way for me; how did you come up with them?

Note: these calculations are only valid after next patch. I could illustrate how crits more (sometimes much more) than double your damage against enemies with resistances. That's why it's currently tricky to decide which are best.
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  #15  
Old 12-26-2010, 06:42 PM
Manumitted Manumitted is offline
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All right, it looks like I gave the absolute difference in Crits instead of the relative difference that is proper. The conclusion stays the same, though: 22% Cast Time gloves exceed anything that Tore's gloves could give a pure caster, and even the 1x% Cast Time gloves probably are better than Tore's almost immediately, absent a truly heroic effort at INT-boosting.
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  #16  
Old 12-27-2010, 12:34 AM
Nobear Nobear is offline
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That will be the case for sure if/when Shadow implements the resistance vs crit change. I wouldn't vendor your Tore's Gloves quite yet. For now, this is how spell crits can potentially be a lot better than you think:

Instead of armor which absorbs 1/18 to 1/36 of its value, resistances absorb 1/4 to 1/8 of their respective values. Also, spells generally do a world less damage than melee specials. I'm talking having to spam a spell 10-100 times on some bosses vs 1-shot or 2-shot melee them.

Example: my level 44 wizard's Rank 11 Arctic Shard does 45-135 (90 average) damage. With +60% from Cold Mastery, that becomes 144 average. I have no idea how much resistance different enemies have to different schools, but the numbers I see tend to be significantly lower than they'd be with 0 resistance. Suppose some frost enemy has 100% cold resistance, which at my level would take about 200 cold resist. That gives him 50-25 (37.5 average) points of absorption.

144 - 37.5 = 106.5 average non-crit damage
288 - 37.5 = 250.5 average crit damage
250.5 / 106.5 = 2.35: in this specific case, a crit does 2.35X normal damage

Without specific knowledge, I have no idea whether a typical level 44 frost enemy would have more or less than 200 cold resist. I'd imagine that enemies would tend to have more than usual resistance to the school they cast, and less than average to their "opposite" school, ie frost vs fire, but that's an unconfirmed guess based mostly on how I'd design a game.

What I do know, though, is that I struggled through my 20s and 30s, because I tried to have balanced skills which included maxed teleport and good CC. Then I tried switching from Arctic Shard to the same rank Arcane Blast, and found that despite the lower listed damage, I was actually hitting things harder.

Missing the slow effect, I switched back to frost but purely maxed my DPS. I found that just 1 or 2 extra ranks in damage skills gave me an astronomical DPS increase, and more than made up for the lost utility skills. That tells me that as a pure caster, you really need to focus on DPS just to stay ahead of the resistance curve, and make sure at least half of your damage is actually cutting through.

This being the case, I suspect that in practice, crits will often do, say, 3X or more damage in a balanced build that includes utility.

Shadow has stated that he might double resistances' effects vs crits, therefore making crits always do 2X damage in practice. If that change stays in place for next patch, this latest post will be irrelevant, and my previous calculations will be enough to decide about Tore's vs -Cast Time.

Last edited by Nobear : 12-27-2010 at 12:44 AM.
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