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  #1  
Old 12-24-2010, 12:01 AM
Nobear Nobear is offline
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Default 0% Cast time... or not?

I was using a -60% cast time staff for a while, and it tremendously helped. I just got some -44% cast time gloves, and I don't notice much if any difference in how fast I can spam spells. What's going on here?
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  #2  
Old 12-24-2010, 12:30 AM
Oasisbhrnw Oasisbhrnw is offline
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-44% cast time gloves, wow. I can't find any -x% cast time gloves. Even if they're not working for you, I'm still jealous.
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  #3  
Old 12-24-2010, 01:30 AM
Nobear Nobear is offline
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I have -60% cast time gloves as well waiting for me, which also give 10 mana regen and some other stuff. I can confirm that one -60% item is super nice, but I'd like to know what the cap is if there is one, or what's going on. Shadow?
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  #4  
Old 12-24-2010, 04:14 AM
Manumitted Manumitted is offline
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Try an experiment. Get out a stopwatch and spam 5-10 of your slowest offensive spell (detrain it if necessary not to finish off your target) with and without the second -Cast Time item. I suspect that, as usual for RPGs, only the best enchantment is active. At best, you might get 44% off of 60% off nominal cast time (78% off combined, roughly 4.5X nominal rate). 60%/60% would be 6X nominal cast rate. These rates combine to sufficiently nice numbers to make me suspect that's how they work in combination, especially when -Cast Time is only available on gloves and staves. Three 60% items would combine to 16X nominal cast rate, which is a bit overpowered and liable to cause some RSI.
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Old 12-24-2010, 09:14 AM
abomination5 abomination5 is offline
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There is no cap and they do stack.
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  #6  
Old 12-24-2010, 09:42 AM
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Shadow Shadow is offline
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Negative multipliers don't work exactly how you would think. If they did -60% and -50% would do what exactly? Instead of having major math issues, just keeping the best modifier, or having some weird cap we let them stack as much as possible but change the math a bit.

To get the real modifier we just this formula:
realMultiplier = 1.0 / ( 1.0 + -zeroBasedMultiplier );
A -100% would be a -1.0 for zeroBasedMultiplier and would result in a 0.5 realMultiplier.
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Last edited by Shadow : 12-24-2010 at 10:09 AM.
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2010, 10:05 AM
Sammual Sammual is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Negative multipliers don't work exactly how you would think. If they did -60% and -50% would do what exactly? Instead of having major math issues, just keeping the best modifier, or having some weird cap we let them stack as much as possible but change the math a bit.

To get the real modifier we just this formula:
realMultiplier = 1.0f / ( 1.0f + -zeroBasedMultiplier );
A -100% would be a -1.0 for zeroBasedMultiplier and would result in a 0.5 realMultiplier.
Using the formula you posted to get a -100% give a realMultiplier of 0.5 f needs to be 1.

What is f?

Thanks,
Sammual
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  #8  
Old 12-24-2010, 10:12 AM
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Sorry the fs that were in the formula are just how you specify that a number is a float instead of a double in C/C++ (basically how many bits it uses internally).

I've removed the fs now to be less confusing.
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  #9  
Old 12-24-2010, 06:20 PM
Nobear Nobear is offline
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Thanks Shadow. So now we can calculate the DPS gain of various amounts.

-60% yields a .625 realMultiplier. In other words, it takes 62.5% of the normal time to yield a given damage. Invert that, and you get +60% damage in a given time, which is DPS. So -% cast time is actually +% DPS!!

Let's try with the max possible: -120% cast time. .45 realMultiplier, inverted is 2.2, or (100%) +120% DPS! In other words, this will more than double your DPS: not bad!

The key to sustaining such high DPS is stacking mana regen on top of that. My -60% cast time aka +60% DPS gloves also give 10 mana regen, and I've seen items with as much as 20 mana regen (saved that one too). Already at level 44 with 28 mana/sec regen I can spam quite a bit, and usually have enough back by the next fight.

Note: the calculations above are effective as of right now. The calculations from here down will only apply AFTER the next patch comes out, which will make resistances twice as effective vs crits as normals, therefore no longer giving crits an added DPS gain which varies based on the specific spell damage range and the enemy's resistance to that school.

Now what interests me at the moment is deciding whether to go with Tore's Gloves (+75% crit) or -44% cast time gloves. Right now, Tore's Gloves increase my crit chance from 20.80% to 36.39%. After the patch, my DPS will have increased by 136.39 / 120.80 = 13.1%. The cast time gloves would increase my total DPS by (1 + .6 + .44) / (1 + .6) = 27.5%.

I don't even have to relearn Calculus to generalize this. At just over 57% base crit chance (1 / 1.75), you'd be taken to 100% crit with Tore's Gloves. Your DPS gain (after the patch) would then be 200 / 157 = 27.3%. Even combined with a -60% cast time staff, -44% cast time gloves would still yield a higher DPS gain than Tore's Gloves. With -60% gloves, there's no comparison.

So which gloves are superior now is a complicated question which depends on many factors. Once the next patch comes out, -44% or higher cast time gloves will hands down be the best possible endgame caster gloves for pure DPS gain.

Last edited by Nobear : 12-24-2010 at 06:55 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-24-2010, 06:41 PM
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FloodSpectre FloodSpectre is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobear View Post
There, the final word is out: -44% or higher cast time gloves are the best possible endgame caster gloves for pure DPS gain.
The question is, how early do items with that modifier drop? It doesn't seem there's a lot of variety in the % bonus of -casttime items, though they do appear to be fairly rare in any case. I'm pretty much just concerned about balance issues here is all.
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