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  #21  
Old 05-03-2019, 12:14 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Scouring my notes for ideas for improvements:

* The major one: One of the biggest 'exploits' is weapon speed. It can only spawn on a weapon, but a weapon can have several of these stack, and players will always select for the most they can get (which is what they're expected to do). The way it works actually seems wrong and I think should be fixed. The way I'd expect it to work, is that if I have a 90% speed modifier, my weapon should have 1.9 DPS ie. it should work 90% faster. Instead, it cuts down weapon time by 90%, leaving it at 10%, which means it's a 10x DPS boost!!!!! And you can get several of these stacked together!!! In my mod, the only way I was able to constrain this somewhat was by halving percent per level and reducing levels to max out at 50 instead of 100. You can do this, or you can fix the formula in the code and make it more reasonable (highly recommended ) .

* 2nd most important: Item modifiers for armorMult, damageMaxMult, damageMult and attackAndDamageMult build up over levels. This doesn't entirely make sense though. A level 100 item can have a +300% damage modifier (possibly more than 1!), on top of any damage boost and other things it may have! These modifiers should probably top out at +100-120% or so (perhaps even less, to account for stacking?), and there's no real reason to tie them to levels so closely: a level 20 item could still benefit from a +80% modifier just as well as a level 90 item could. In my mod, I halved the base and perlevel, and maxed them out at level 50, which means any time after 50 you can get these modifiers.

Others:
* Some of the older proc item modifiers are set at 7.5%, which, when you get hit many times (as happens), means you're firing these things all the time. Reducing them to 3% should do the trick.
* Monster enhancement Fleet of Foot is too strong: you can't shake those guys. Should be reduced some.
* Monster enchancement Power Burn is too strong: consumes all your mana in a couple of hits. Reduced level 1 to be 0.02, 2 to be 0.04, 3 to be 0.08.
* Monster enhancement Regeneration has been reduced in DL (it was too strong in DC, and regenerating bosses are really annoying). But making it percentage based makes it irrelevant on non-bosses. I changed all 3 levels to have a perLevel component and use HealthChange rather than HealthChangePercent.
* Monster enhancement ExtraStrength is useless for enemies that do elemental damage. Changed to DamageMultAll.
* Monster enhancement EnhancementShrunk could increase defense.
* Torva Shamans need their own version of EnhancementFireAura that has AuraFriends 1. Otherwise they're buffing the monsters trying to kill them.
* The scavenger could slow down and lose some defense as it grows (it's harder for it to dodge, and it shouldn't chase you as fast).
* StatusEffectCold/Fire/LightningEnchantment, StatusEffectAuraDarkElf/Orc, StatusEffectAuraAltar: Change from OnlyOne to OnePerInflicter, to make the randomness more interesting: if you get an area full of totems, the effects stack up etc.

Status Effects:
* Status effect bark skin could lower your fire resistance.
* Change gaseous form to turn off when you use a skill: RemoveOnEvent UseSkill and take away CantUseSkills. Also increase defense.
* StatusEffectGiant: reduce defense (you're big and hard for you to dodge). Increase your crushing blow. Decrease others' crushing blow of you.
* StoneSkin from obelisk should increase your resistances too.

EDIT: Some more:
* StatusEffectBerserk shouldn't keep subtracting % defense per level. It's enough to lose 20% of your defense.
* In general, for active skills/status effects that modify crit/bleed/crush %, I prefer to use Change rather than Mult. This is because we know the full range of the stat (up to 100%), and I want the skill to be worth it at lower player levels, where the player is going to have only a few percentage points of say, crush, and boosting that by 20% doesn't do much. On the other hand, getting +10% crush + 2% per skill level will make a big difference. In the mod I changed almost all occurences of MultCrush etc to ChangeCrush etc, with reasonable values.
* On the other hand, for stats like armor, defense, attack, where you don't know what the values are going to be at the particular player level, it's more reasonable to use Mult rather than provide a skill that's useless for the player because it adds too few armor points etc.
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Last edited by Bluddy : 05-03-2019 at 12:53 PM.
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  #22  
Old 05-03-2019, 01:17 PM
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Weapon speed doesn't apply to skills, so it's kind of useless imho. I mean, sure it's overpowered if you're just auto-attacking everything, but that is so horribly inefficient that I have no idea why you would do that over using a skill. It's not even that good with the on-proc skills, because again, you're better off just using the on-proc skills (since you'll be invested into them). (If you know a build that is overpowered with auto-attacking though, then I would definitely take this back! But, I definitely don't think anything beats Berserk/Savage Strike + Multi-Strike.)

For the 2nd most important, I don't think that the mod values matter too much as long as the equivalent level monster difficult is balanced around them. You should feel a strong desire to upgrade your gear, which currently doesn't exist in the current state of the game (though, next patch looks promising!)

As for the rest, I really like some of them and really dislike some of them (like barkskin giving -fire res is really neat and flavorful). I won't tear apart your post tho haha.
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  #23  
Old 05-03-2019, 01:35 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destro* View Post
Weapon speed doesn't apply to skills, so it's kind of useless imho.
Oh good point -- I forgot about that! That's what I get for digging up old notes. I guess it's a competitor for skills then, which is interesting -- it's a different build. Still shouldn't go up as high as 10x or more.


Quote:
For the 2nd most important, I don't think that the mod values matter too much as long as the equivalent level monster difficult is balanced around them.
When you have weapons that do 400% or more damage of other elite weapons of the same kind, you can't balance no matter what. It's the most damage in the game being multiplied several times over. In general, percentages have to be kept down in order to have any chance of balancing.

Quote:
You should feel a strong desire to upgrade your gear, which currently doesn't exist in the current state of the game (though, next patch looks promising!)
This is also exacerbated by having these high percentage multipliers. Weapons/items that have them (especially several of them) are *so* much more powerful than other items, that you're not going to find anything comparable for many, many levels after finding that damageMult item, for example. You won't even look at the other modifiers. Again, runaway percentages are *always* a problem for balancing. In this case, they hurt item competitiveness, which needs to stay throughout the game.
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  #24  
Old 05-03-2019, 01:51 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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BTW, almost all the percentage-based attack/passive skills have a problem with runaway percentages, that isn't currently solved by skill point limitations.

a. One way to solve this is to reduce the percentage given per level, so on the 30th level of say Cleave it gives you far less % increase than in the first level.

b. The way I'm thinking of currently (since I don't have the ability to do a) is to increase the skill point cost of each level of a scaling skill (ie. a percentage-based skill) by more than 1 per level. If it goes up by 3 or even 4 points per level, buying 30 levels of Cleave will cost 1860 points ie. 2x more than all your points. Getting to level 20 will cost 840 points ie. almost all of your points.
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  #25  
Old 05-03-2019, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destro* View Post
Weapon speed doesn't apply to skills, so it's kind of useless imho.
That's actually not completely true. It doesn't speed up your weapon when using skill attacks, but it basically takes it into account and boosts the damage instead.
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  #26  
Old 05-03-2019, 02:54 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
That's actually not completely true. It doesn't speed up your weapon when using skill attacks, but it basically takes it into account and boosts the damage instead.
Dang I knew that as well, and forgot it. Anyway, the weapon speed issue is super relevant then.
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  #27  
Old 05-03-2019, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
Also, how do I change the player skin?
If you mean from a modding standpoint, I believe you would want to change
Models/Creatures/MutatedFemale/MutatedFemaleA.skn or Models/Creatures/MutatedMale/MutatedMaleA.skn, but the armor parts will still automatically update to the whatever armor you put on.
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  #28  
Old 05-03-2019, 04:22 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Shadow, can you change the thread name to something like Balance Discussion?

Also, regarding the mutation points, it appears to me that they're being given out too liberally. I understand the desire to create and shape a character, but that has to be done under some kind of constraints. Otherwise it's more like an edit button than a game mechanic, right?

If I can only mutate X times, I have to think and plan carefully. If I have so many mutation points building up that I can change at will, I have no reason to consider any of it.

Not sure how you want to limit them/reduce their drop rate though.
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  #29  
Old 05-03-2019, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
That's actually not completely true. It doesn't speed up your weapon when using skill attacks, but it basically takes it into account and boosts the damage instead.
Fair enough, I had no idea that that works that way. That is quite... non-intuitive in my opinion. But, it gives damage, so I must admit that weapon speed is not entirely useless. This makes it quite competitive with the other damage % mods I bet.

Hopefully melee damage isn't overkill at all phases of the game once your balance tweaks are live so that that damage mod will matter. I can't wait to see the fruits of your labor!

imb4 monsters are doing 10k a hit, have healthbars in the millions and 10 million player dps is scaled to 10 dmg ;p

Last edited by Destro* : 05-03-2019 at 04:28 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-03-2019, 06:49 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destro* View Post
imb4 monsters are doing 10k a hit, have healthbars in the millions and 10 million player dps is scaled to 10 dmg ;p
No worries - monster stats are fully under our control, unlike player choices.
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