Bugs 1.022 (continued)

[Crisses]

Originally Posted by EternalChampion

I've been having the same problem with Holy Shield, Infinite Mana, Mana Steal, etc. obelisks... they die-out almost instantly. A lot of the times, but not always.

I've also noticed that. Very erratic -- sometimes they last a minute or two, sometimes it's under 20 seconds, which is pretty useless for some of them. Is the same thing happening with evil pool effects?

[m0stly_harmless]

Originally Posted by The Coffee God

Well, it's not really that I want it to be knocked off if stats don't meet the reqs, particularly during combat or just traveling around the dungeon.
As stated by others, that could not only prove hazardous to ones health, but could also lead to dissension in the ranks of co-op players.

More of what I was getting at though, was one really shouldn't be able to switch them out like that, if stats are boosted by the previous item to make the req and/or by stat potions.

Like it is if we don't meet the req in the first place, we should be stopped from putting it on, or at the very least, disable it so it can't be used if the reqs aren't met.

Originally Posted by Bluddy

Yeah I think disabling the item is a good idea. There should be an icon on the side like the broken item icon, to let you know about the problem.

If ANY of this stuff is put into place, the requirements for BOWS and MACES NEEDS to be tweaked or those weapon classes will become completely useless in this game (moreso than they already are).

Better yet, get rid of the strenght & dex potions - cause as far as most players are concerned, helping you equip that one piece of hardware that's out of reach is the only reason those things are available.

Personally, I disapprove of either of these ideas.

THOUGH, making THAT part of the HARDCORE option gameplay would be fine (as I don't play hardcore). heh

[Bluddy]

Originally Posted by m0stly_harmless

If ANY of this stuff is put into place, the requirements for BOWS and MACES NEEDS to be tweaked or those weapon classes will become completely useless in this game (moreso than they already are).

Better yet, get rid of the strenght & dex potions - cause as far as most players are concerned, helping you equip that one piece of hardware that's out of reach is the only reason those things are available.

Looking at maces and bows, they really have very high requirements for STR and DEX, respectively. There's really no reason for them to be that high -- they're meant for classes that don't excel in those attributes. Priests have high SPR and rangers don't have anything particularly high, so I'm not sure why the numbers were set that high.

I'd say dagger stats are also a tad too demanding in terms of DEX, especially since most rogue classes can just switch to swords. At least the requirement is understandable for daggers since they are faster.

[m0stly_harmless]

Right, so nerfing the weapons after our strenght/dex potion wears out is absolute nonsense.

Good bows and maces are easier to find now, BUT with absurd requirements to equip them still, and now talk about nerfing the equipment because of skill requirements not being met just means that characters of these classes will not get used and the weapons just take up space.

Might as well call the game Diablo at that point. Limited characters and weapon choices.

A serious step backwards for this game, IMO.

[Bluddy]

Originally Posted by m0stly_harmless

Right, so nerfing the weapons after our strenght/dex potion wears out is absolute nonsense.

Good bows and maces are easier to find now, BUT with absurd requirements to equip them still, and now talk about nerfing the equipment because of skill requirements not being met just means that characters of these classes will not get used and the weapons just take up space.

Might as well call the game Diablo at that point. Limited characters and weapon choices.

A serious step backwards for this game, IMO.

It's very easy to fix the requirements for bows and maces, so no need to worry about it. You can check out my balance mod -- I already did it there. The thing that's a little harder to fix is the stat checking for items. That requires coding by Shadow.

[m0stly_harmless]

That's one of my issues... we shouldn't need a "mod" to fix a perceived problem in the game.

It should be fixed within the game itself.


I still say that "stats" checking thing should be LIMITED to the "hardcore" game options - or at the least a on/off option because that will SERIOUSLY change the gameplay of Din and make it substantially harder for some classes, if not completely gimp them.

[Bluddy]

Originally Posted by m0stly_harmless

That's one of my issues... we shouldn't need a "mod" to fix a perceived problem in the game.

It should be fixed within the game itself.


I still say that "stats" checking thing should be LIMITED to the "hardcore" game options - or at the least a on/off option because that will SERIOUSLY change the gameplay of Din and make it substantially harder for some classes, if not completely gimp them.

Fair enough, but this is the bug thread, and Shadow responds pretty well to the issues listed here. I'm just saying the bow, mace and dagger requirement issue is easy to fix, at which point stat checking wouldn't be an issue for their respective classes.

[m0stly_harmless]

I know. Someone earlier said the potion bumps was more like a bug than a loophole. This sparked my comments. I firmly believe that it is a loophole to help with the sometimes crazy weapon/armour requirements.

I think it all depends on how it's done and applied. The end results could end up very beneficial or make the game fall completly on it's face.

I still feel it shouldn't be tinkered with - or if the change is necessary, put it in the hardcore/options selection area. (Call it "realistic requirements" or something of the like.)

[Bluddy]

The thing I'm not crazy about with putting all these options in hardcore or whatever, is that ultimately there's no unified game experience. I'll just give a few examples.

The fact that you can start at any level dungeon you want seems like a good idea -- it's so open. However, what that means, is that there is no predictable path that a character takes. There's no real difficulty curve to adjust. It's impossible to make an economy that's anywhere near a real element of the game since players can farm whatever level they want. The same applies to items.

Another element that exhibits the problem with making things optional, is hunger. It's in the game, but only as an option; probably very few players actually play with it on. If it was a full element of the game, it could be put in properly and adjusted to work with the other elements. Instead it kind of just hangs there -- not really useful, but too annoying in its current form to put as part of the real game.

This is why I don't think this should be another feature shoved into the 'checkbox' or 'hardcore' category. The gameplay is too fragmented as it is with a whole bunch of options that aren't really used much. Users expect that once their stats don't match items' minimal requirements, the items will no longer be usable. This is a basic expectation from just about all other RPGs. It should be part of the game. If there's a problem with this basic mechanic, that problem should be fixed. In the case of bows/maces/daggers, the problem is easily fixed.

I also think foods should be spread out over the levels and quality foods should disappear, as has been mentioned before. We have enough food types as it is. I think Shadow said that he couldn't change the value of the foods since that'll throw off current characters, but I think it'll be ok -- foods are temporary items anyway. In the worst case, people will discover that their current foods are of a different level than they expected. They'll go through them, and that'll be that.