Armor and Resistance: Changes required

[Baki]

Originally Posted by Shadow

Armor:
EffectiveArmor = Defenders Armor - Attackers Armor Piercing
AbsorbedDamage = RandomValue between EffectiveArmor / 40 and EffectiveArmor / 20

Resistance:
EffectiveResistance = Defenders Resistance of that Damage Type
AbsorbedDamage = RandomValue between EffectiveResistance / 8 and EffectiveResistance / 4

I think the formulas need to change. A normal monster in endgame can easily hit for 500 Damage before armor / resistance. To reduce this damage by 20% you would need an armor of 3000 or a resistance of 600. But even if you manage to gain that amount of armor or resistance there will still be champions or bosses which will kill you in 1 hit no matter if you are a squishy caster in clothes or a plate defender who focussed on armor.

I think we need a percent-based formula for reduction by armor / resistance modified by level.

Something like this: Armor or Resistance / x / Monsterlevel (or charlevel?) * y = Reduction in percent.

[abomination5]

I knew there was a problem with armor scaling but I did not realize this was the source. A new damage formula that scales better at higher levels would bring more balance and fun for melee classes. Percent based absorption and diminishing returns (no 100% absorption!) sound like a good place to start. Is this possible?

[Baki]

On 2nd thought my suggested formula looks bad.

something like this should do well: DR% = Armor / (Armor + x + y * Charlvl (or Monsterlvl?))

[abomination5]

Originally Posted by Baki

On 2nd thought my suggested formula looks bad.

something like this should do well: DR% = Armor / (Armor + x + y * Charlvl (or Monsterlvl?))

WoW uses this kind of formula.

DR% = Armor / (Armor + (467.5 * AttackerLevel - 22167.5))

Variables can be tweaked for balance.

[FloodSpectre]

I think enemy HP could stand to see some revision too. Currently most enemies at the same level will have almost the exact same amount of HP provided they aren't champion+ status. Vortar Raiders have the same HP as a tiny little Blot...

[fiesher]

Hey all,

I am all for the revisions if the scaling will provide a better endgame for players.

Diminishing returns after a certain value for a stat, and making armor/evasion relevant (not uber-strong) is definitely something to aim for.

I know balancing the game across the board (lvls 1-100) is never easy, but dealing one-shot kills to one that a HP and Defense-centric character is never fun. Those characters already kill slower than the Offense-centric ones, and if their survivability is roughly equal to that of the latter, then an imbalance occurs and the game will suffer from not being able to have a proper variety of viable characters.

Discussion/Playtesting regarding this aspect is key as there is usually a fine line between making the game too easy or too hard. But with time and effort, a solution will be found.

All great games evolve, and these proposed changes will raise the quality of Din's Curse (w/Demon War) to a whole 'nother level.

[abomination5]

This weekend I'll try to come up with some suggestions for reasonable values for the constants in that WoW style formula.

[DeathKnight1728]

What about the changes made to armor in general. Shadow, will skills like armor melt and the gladiator skill which lowers armor, be able to lower enemies armor into the negatives. If they do, then that might actually make piercing armor useful.

[abomination5]

How much %DR should a completely defense oriented character with the best gear have at level 100? What about a cloth wearer with the best gear?

I was thinking between 75-85% for the defense oriented character and around 20% for the cloth wearer? Any opinions?

[Nobear]

If you look at vanilla WoW, only bear druids could approach the armor cap of 75%. Warriors (usually the more popular tank) only had about 60% with good gear, but they had better mitigation (things like parry which completely avoided an attack), and more threat and utility skills to compensate. In Oblivion, the armor cap was 85%, and I found that too much. With good gear that you were highly skilled in, the game became trivial and nothing presented a challenge any more. I like a 75% cap better.

If a huge change like this is implemented, I think resistances should also be capped at 75%. Both caps should apply to players as well as monsters.

You've gotta realize that Din's Curse's items are far more random than either of those games, so some cloth offers more protection than some plate. I would balance it so with the current absolute best gear, without skills to augment armor, you achieve 60%, but the cap is 75%. You might be able to hit 75% if you invest heavily in +% armor skills, but otherwise not. Anything higher would also tip the scales the other way to making too big a difference between the armor classes.