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  #11  
Old 01-26-2011, 06:12 PM
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DeathKnight1728 DeathKnight1728 is offline
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ahahahaahahah

Last edited by DeathKnight1728 : 01-26-2011 at 06:35 PM.
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  #12  
Old 01-27-2011, 12:37 AM
udm udm is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
Of the choices for turn-based styles, the latest 'in' direction happens to be phase-based rather than turn-based (as demonstrated in games such as Combat Mission and Flotilla), and I think this is where Soldak should go, since it's very similar to realtime yet much more strategic.
You might want to check out Darkwind then. It does the phase-based aspect almost perfectly
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  #13  
Old 01-27-2011, 04:21 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by pnakotus View Post
Do you seriously think replaying a fixed story is interesting?
With a game like Baldur's Gate 2 you get so much content you don't really need to replay it. Alternatively, a loose game like Fallout has a fixed story but so much openness to your choices that every time you play it it's different.

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So lets talk about the problems with turn-based play (as distinct from the superior pausable-realtime): interrupts and action timing. Every turn based tactical game from Laser Squad on has various hackish mechanics to get around this stuff, but it's still present and was a giant lol in games like JA2 and Dark Queen of Krynn; when it's your turn, 90% of enemies will just stand around like idiots while you dick with inventory, scroll through spell lists, bring up splash templates, aim at 5 different parts of their body working out odds, etc. Almost none of these games reflect (say) reaction differences between larger or smaller weapons beyond '15% chance of interrupt'. Any game that lets your guys reload right in front of the enemy team without reaction (like Fallout, XCOM, etc) is fundamentally broken and stupid, and this is literally impossible in anything based on a clock instead of board-game legacy 'turns'.
Those are valid points. Turn based games are a compromise, and sometimes that compromise is too much. They try to approximate a realtime battle, but have many lapses. For example your guy can walk across the screen but the enemy may not be able to react until his turn (or get one chance to react to you). Another problem is that they make every battle last a looong time, and that becomes silly for weak enemies.

At the same time, turn-based systems have advantages. They make you highly aware of every single thing your character does. Every time you hit an enemy you can notice if you hit him well. As an example, this information can allow you to decide if you should swap your piercing weapon for a crushing weapon to fight against creatures sensitive to certain weapons. You get time to process all the feedback that you get. .

Additionally, if we want to control multiple characters, turn-based is one of the few ways to have enough time to process all the information that each character has to deal with, while still maintaining direct control of the situation. Real-time with pause is of limited use because pause as you will, the attacks still happen simultaneously and controlling several characters spread across different areas is virtually impossible. Phase-based systems allow you to replay the last phases until you absorb all the information, but loss of control between input points means that the AI is the one carrying out many of the decisions.
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  #14  
Old 01-27-2011, 11:42 AM
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The point is still being missed about mmo's, and that is that they have no absolute story, meaning it is just mindless bashing. No cool story, no cool characters in the world, just pointless smashing. Din's and dop is different from that however in that the world makes you get involved with it, no matter if you want to or not. With that, i dont think dins and dop need a story. However, there are very few other games that are action/rpgs that actually have a story instead of just something that anyone can put together. diablo 1 actually had a story. d2 did not. Divine divinity had an amazing story and great action to boot, a mix of both. Just because a game is addicting doenst mean it is great. Look at wow. It completely sucks. You will waste 8/10 of your life playing that game and for nothing. No story, no characters, no plot, nothing cool to remember it by. Only that "awesome, i just got my character to lvl 100, it took me 1 year and 45 days-i have no life" feeling.
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2011, 10:38 PM
abomination5 abomination5 is offline
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Originally Posted by DeathKnight1728 View Post
The point is still being missed about mmo's, and that is that they have no absolute story, meaning it is just mindless bashing. No cool story, no cool characters in the world, just pointless smashing. Din's and dop is different from that however in that the world makes you get involved with it, no matter if you want to or not. With that, i dont think dins and dop need a story. However, there are very few other games that are action/rpgs that actually have a story instead of just something that anyone can put together. diablo 1 actually had a story. d2 did not. Divine divinity had an amazing story and great action to boot, a mix of both. Just because a game is addicting doenst mean it is great. Look at wow. It completely sucks. You will waste 8/10 of your life playing that game and for nothing. No story, no characters, no plot, nothing cool to remember it by. Only that "awesome, i just got my character to lvl 100, it took me 1 year and 45 days-i have no life" feeling.
WoW may not have an amazing story but it does have a detailed world that was quite immersive to me. Personally, I loved WoW. I only quit because high level raiding doesn't appeal to me (playing the exact same content over and over again).

I don't play games for the story. For me, immersion is more important.

Last edited by abomination5 : 01-27-2011 at 10:41 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-28-2011, 06:32 PM
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DeathKnight1728 DeathKnight1728 is offline
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The immersion and greatness in wow is its openness but mostly, the ability to play with a large (really large) amount of people. Trading, auctions, duels, challenges, quests, etc. are at your disposal. The classes are cool.

What i dont like are many things.

1) The controls. It took me forever to figure out the controls and i still think that they are difficult. What happened to the good old days with d2 where it was fairly simple to play. In wow, its the complete opposite, a key for everything. Not my taste. With din i get the ability to play an easily controlled game with fast tactics but an immersive world (without the regular scumbags that frequent the realm) I very rarely play din on multiplayer but the people on din are 100 times better than on d2 and any other blizzard multiplayer game.

2) Which leads me to my 2nd and more important reason why i dont like wow-the people. For some reason, whenever i play d2, or wow i am subjected to the biggest losers on the planet. You go into a game and ask a simple question on how to use a button, "noob, ubernoob." The people are also scumbags too and hack your account, trick you, steal from you. There are bots too which i dont even want to get into. Ultimately, the people on bnet as a whole suck. I would honestly laugh in any of these losers faces if they came down with cancer because as a whole, they are worthless as people.
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  #17  
Old 01-28-2011, 10:44 PM
abomination5 abomination5 is offline
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Originally Posted by DeathKnight1728 View Post
2) Which leads me to my 2nd and more important reason why i dont like wow-the people.
I didn't like the atmosphere in the standard WoW servers either. That's why I played in a roleplay server. I found the players that to be much more considerate and polite.
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  #18  
Old 01-28-2011, 11:21 PM
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DeathKnight1728 DeathKnight1728 is offline
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Thats why i like dins singleplayer mode much better, its not that i hate people as a whole (although they do suck), it's just that i dont have to be subjegated to game name-potheads only, or i know how to dupe on d2 games. And on wow, 1 simple question turns into 10 sociopathic losers. With dins i can play single player most of the time, and if i want to play multiplayer i can too. The problem i had with d2 was though you can play singleplayer, its not nearly as fun as multi. And wow you only get multi. One of my friends told me that he would gladly pay $60 for the base d3 game and an extra 5$ a month for it if they used that extra money to go towards stopping hacks, dupes, bots, cheaters, maphack and anything else under the sun. I would support that if they did it. All of those things listed, slowed the game down and made it really annoying to play.

To get back on topic, I think that i can only truly play a roleplaying game if it has good action and a really really good story that draws me in, otherwise din's will be grab me back again.
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