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  #1  
Old 02-23-2011, 03:09 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Default Helping the resistance formula

OK. I'm happy about the new forum, but sad that my open threads are now where they won't be seen. So I'll just copy over a few of the ones I think are really important. I hope nobody minds too much.

Quote:
OK, so I'm not done with improving the armor formula, but it turns out resistance is actually very easy to fix. This is because resistance, unlike armor, is much easier to predict. I sampled many many characters from the repository and from the 'Show your Characters' thread, collecting resistance data. What I found was that resistance barely increases with level for the most part. Even level 100 characters usually have at most 180 resistances. Over 200 is extremely rare and means the character really invested in specific resistances, which should be rewarded.

Please see my updated excel sheet (http://www.mediafire.com/?oasv554v97xa2o4) for reference. The relevant pages are ResOld and ResNon.

The current function is:
% = resistance / (resistance + 6 * attacker level + 12)

People who have read my armor fixing thread should see the problem here right away. The constant (12) is very low, which means we'll experience the function's fast part in the very beginning, and then immediately transition to the slow growth (unrewarding) stage. This is why 5 points of resistance at level 1 already give you 22% resistance. But the blissful state lasts a very short while, because the attacker level factor is too strong relative to the constant, causing our resistance to drop to 10% within 5 levels.

The attacker level factor needs to be much weaker, since characters don't really get much more resistance as they progress in levels. Also, the constant needs to be larger so that the good, linear part of the function is dominant for longer.

I recommend something close to these values:
% = ( resistance / (resistance + 1.7 * attacker level + 120) ) * 1.5

Notice my added factor of 1.5. The reason for this is to maximize the linear part of the function. The larger constant flattens the function out (while making it more linear) so the added factor raises the line back up, making the slope more interesting to advance along. The values can be capped to whatever maximum percentage is desired.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:44 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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As part of changing the resistance formula, the resistance awarded to monsters needs to be modified too. I think 0.2 per level is a good amount with the new formula. This keeps monsters' resistance low but slowly rising. It's critical to make most monsters' resistance low, to enable wizards to cope. Also, a relatively low resistance makes the elemental damage of weapons much more worthwhile.

Another formula I like for resistance (if you don't want the extra factor) is
resist % = resistance / (resistance + 0.7 * attacker level + 70)

As a side point, as has been mentioned elsewhere, elementals should have very high resistance (100+) to their own element. They should be the bane of wizards of their own element (ice to ice, fire to fire, lightning to lightning). The multiplier should be increased significantly for all elementals' enhancements IMHO.

Last edited by Bluddy : 02-24-2011 at 08:12 AM.
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2011, 08:12 AM
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Crisses Crisses is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
As part of changing the resistance formula, the resistance awarded to monsters needs to be modified too. I think 0.2 per level is a good amount with the new formula. This keeps monsters' resistance low but slowly rising. It's critical to make most monsters' resistance low, to enable wizards to cope. Also, a relatively low resistance makes the elemental damage of weapons much more worthwhile.

As a side point, as has been mentioned elsewhere, elementals should have very high resistance (100+) to their own element. They should be the bane of wizards of their own element (ice to ice, fire to fire, lightning to lightning). The multiplier should be increased significantly for all elementals' enhancements IMHO.
Worse yet, at higher levels make their element heal them. Gives warriors a need to switch weapons. Look out for areas with both fire and ice elementals esp if you use area of effect....However right now the only workable mages are single tree, so that needs to be addressed first.

I like that walking on ice buffs the ice guys and that the ice patches now melt.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:15 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Crisses View Post
Worse yet, at higher levels make their element heal them. Gives warriors a need to switch weapons. Look out for areas with both fire and ice elementals esp if you use area of effect....However right now the only workable mages are single tree, so that needs to be addressed first.

I like that walking on ice buffs the ice guys and that the ice patches now melt.
Healing might be excessive (and it requires a change in the mechanics of the game). I imagine if you're hitting a monster with your fireball and it does close to 0 damage, that's enough of a sign you need to switch tactics
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
Healing might be excessive (and it requires a change in the mechanics of the game). I imagine if you're hitting a monster with your fireball and it does close to 0 damage, that's enough of a sign you need to switch tactics
Softie heh Just trying to be realistic. If I were a fire elemental and you were slinging fireballs, I'd be like "Bring it on!"
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Old 02-24-2011, 09:52 AM
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Maledictus Maledictus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
As a side point, as has been mentioned elsewhere, elementals should have very high resistance (100+) to their own element. They should be the bane of wizards of their own element (ice to ice, fire to fire, lightning to lightning). The multiplier should be increased significantly for all elementals' enhancements IMHO.
Could this lead to JRPG featuritis, like having to change weapons all the time because you need to adapt to enemy types?
I'm asking because I was thinking about melee chars and how they deal damage (mainly through weapons). I do not know at the moment how the damage formula works with regard to resistancies, so this might be a silly question. It would however be something I wouldn't like in the game, having to change weapons every time a different enemy appears.
I do like the general idea though, so if it's doable without serious unbalancing issues (like mentioned) I'm all for it.

Last edited by Maledictus : 02-24-2011 at 09:54 AM.
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Old 02-24-2011, 10:17 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maledictus View Post
Could this lead to JRPG featuritis, like having to change weapons all the time because you need to adapt to enemy types?
I'm asking because I was thinking about melee chars and how they deal damage (mainly through weapons). I do not know at the moment how the damage formula works with regard to resistancies, so this might be a silly question. It would however be something I wouldn't like in the game, having to change weapons every time a different anemy appears.
That's a good question and it has repercussions: I think if ice elementals healed from ice damage, you'd want to change your ice mace for anything else because they'd be significantly reducing your damage. If they're just nearly immune to ice damage, they'd still be vulnerable to the physical damage part of the mace. If you want to hurt them even more, you could switch to a fire sword, but it's definitely not required. It's the mages who would need to be careful around them.

BTW I'd be interested to get a reaction to my resistance formula (at least the 2nd one. The first one can't be done because it needs programming modification). Also it would help check if it has down sides I didn't consider. Unzip the attached file into Din's Curse\Assets\
Attached Files
File Type: zip Database.zip (8.7 KB, 4 views)
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  #8  
Old 02-24-2011, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Maledictus View Post
It would however be something I wouldn't like in the game, having to change weapons every time a different enemy appears.
Did you know you can hot-key items including weapons in your bag? i.e. you can switch more than just 2 weapons during the game. You can say have I: bow II: melee (switch with W), but another bow under 2, your original bow under 3 and use hot-key 2 or 3 to swap bows mid-combat.

So this is already supported if it were desired. I'm not saying a sword with fire damage would 100% heal a fire elemental, but if it had 20-30pts fire damage, I was saying THAT might heal (wouldn't make a big dent if there's another 1000 points of physical pain coming like Bluddy said).
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Old 02-24-2011, 12:43 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Hotkeys? how could I have missed that?

Do try out my resistance formula, Crisses; let me know what you think.

BTW is there any way to see critters' stats in the game, like their resistance? Shadow, is there a debug command for that?
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  #10  
Old 02-24-2011, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
Hotkeys? how could I have missed that?

Do try out my resistance formula, Crisses; let me know what you think.

BTW is there any way to see critters' stats in the game, like their resistance? Shadow, is there a debug command for that?
Is there a way to create a plug-in for the game that would change the resistance formula?? i.e. is this pluggable so it can be tested? Seeing it on a graph won't mean ANYTHING unless it's side-by-side with what an elemental-based mage can do if they plug ALL their skill points into ONE big-gun elemental spell at the same level as said monster.

A chart isn't as practical as taking the idea for a spin against a real (or realistic) character.

i.e. I'm much smarter and quicker with my mouse than the monster AIs -- I dodge Torvah Shaman's poison blasts and fire blasts all the time from across the room or while running away. So it matters to me much less how much damage they do, or what my resistance is. The best survival tactic is always "don't get hit".

Oh yeah, with the "Move while casting" plug-in -- so helpful! -- I don't have to be a standing target while casting. Honest, if you're going to jack up resistance for higher level monsters to the point that mages are nearly worthless, take the shackles off the wizard's ankles.
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