Next game thoughts 2

[Shadow]

I have been thinking more about what I want to do for our next game. I have tossed around a lot of ideas and have even blogged recently about some initial ideas. Just a few days ago I thought I had it narrowed down to a hardcore dungeon crawl or maybe a short diversion with a port of Kivi's Underworld to the iPhone. Apparently things can change quickly for us small indies.

I think I have finally settled on a line up for possibly most of this year. The current plan, in order, is a multiplayer expansion for Kivi's Underworld, a multiplayer expansion for Depths of Peril, and then a hardcore dungeon crawl.

This isn't an official announcement and I might very well change my mind next week, but that's my plan at the moment. Any thoughts?

[GeorgiaBoy]

Sounds like a lot of work. We may not see these for a while. With the multiplayer expansion of Kivi's and DoP, would there be an expansion of content as well? I would gladly pay more for more content than the original (MUCH larger world for DoP, DoP that is scriptable, my other ramblings: http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1168.). I hope that multiplayer only means LAN. I would not like to see another WoW, but if a TON of work was put into a mod by part of the fan community, one could mod DoP/Kivi's world to approach its size (DoP item system resembles WoW now)...

GB

[Shadow]

Well I am thinking of internet stuff also, but definitely not an MMO and no charge per month. I'm thinking along the lines of 2 to 8 players.

Right now I'm only planning on multiplayer and not much other new content, so I can focus on the multiplayer.

[GeorgiaBoy]

Maybe softcode DoP completely? Remove the level cap? Be able to turn off covenants completely?

GB

[SharpCarlos]

I'm not really sold on the idea of multiplayer Kivi. I consider it to be a casual, just-before-bedtime type game, as apposed to an "appointment" type game. In other words, I don't see myself talking friends into buying Kivi, and then arranging times we could hook up and play.

Multiplayer DoP? Aaah, now you're talking. I'd be all over that. I have a silly grin on my face just imagining the broken treaties and back-stabbing...

Probably too soon for you to answer this, but if we're talking about an expansion that adds multiplayer but no new content, what sort of pricing were you thinking about?

[GeorgiaBoy]

Originally Posted by SharpCarlos

Multiplayer DoP? Aaah, now you're talking. I'd be all over that. I have a silly grin on my face just imagining the broken treaties and back-stabbing...

Probably too soon for you to answer this, but if we're talking about an expansion that adds multiplayer but no new content, what sort of pricing were you thinking about?

I agree with SharpCarlos completely. If it is purely a multiplayer update, I would pay a lot less (say $15-20 again). I would like to see the more of the work Deliah did for DoP in the expansion. If, on the other hand, there was a lot more content (in addition to MP) like the requests on the forum, as well as my wish list, I would pay $50+. I guess both SharpCarlos and I would like to see time spent on DoP rather than Kivi, but of course, we do not see the big picture like you do...In fact, there could be a conflict...Crank out more $20 titles quicker and appeal to a broader base (which pays the bills quicker), or produce a title which is more in-depth, takes longer, but charge more ($40+ but appeal mainly to the same base), hoping to go 'more mainstream'...It's all about that big picture.

GB

[Kruztee]

I'm not going to add very much except to say that multiplayer does not really interest me that much. If I want a MP fix, I'll just hook up with my buddies in WoW. Still, I'll be in the minority here, I'm sure. Most players on these boards seem to want to have MP functionality in DoP more than anything, so it would probably be a smart move.

I wouldn't buy an expansion for DoP unless there was significant single player content included as well. And I wouldn't buy an expansion for Kivi - period.

I'll wait for that hardcore dungeon crawl. THAT sounds like a lot of fun, especially building on the excellent features that we've already seen in DoP. Can't wait to see some ideas / concept work!

[scragar]

I think multiplayer would be good, but I'm not a multiplayer fan for a good reason, I like to take the time to explore, i map out every area as I pass through it, I think that this method of play doesn't suit multiplayer.

I've also got to ask how you will handle mods, I love experiementing and messing with the game as much as the modding system allows, creating a mage who does one hit kills, but is slow to cast and can't take a single blow is great fun, but how will this work with other players? Will the mod work at all? Maybe for both players? Or just me, and if so what is to prevent cheating?

I would love to play the game against a few friends, I've got to ask though, won't this be server intensive?

[Delve]

Handling generic content mods has been done before (think maps and models in Unreal Tournament). The underlying engine may have to be expanded to allow arbitrary classes, but it looks like this may have already been done as part of Kivi's?

The main thought there is that you'll have to eliminate limits that would create conflicts between different sets of mods. In other words, currently if you have two databases with mods that alter the warrior class there's a conflict that can't be resolved without data loss. If the engine can simply create a special MP type class to support the foreign content then all's well.

Another option would be serving all content direct from the server into a special temporary MP database structure on the client, and storing save states on the server (which would then require a login of some kind). This may introduce a noticable overhead at the start of a new game, but in theory if the MP database is cached for later use it won't be any more onerous than the now-standard update processes of MMOs. Though on a per-server basis. Actually, the more I type about it the more that sounds like the better solution of the two. Just ignore my previous ramblings!

Edit: Oh yeah, sorry I've been absent lately. I've just got too much going on.

Of course, I'm assuming that all mods will be driven by the server so that all players can know what they're dealing with (adding a mod reviewing interface to the client would be desirable, for transparency). Trying to merge multiple DoP databases on the fly as part of the process of starting a sort of ad hoc client to client game sounds much to hairy to be feasible, nevermind the player's confusion of trying to digest multiple unfamiliar mods at one go.

I'm more curious about whether the covenant structure will change. In a MP world, will more than one PC exist in a covenant? Having 4 covenants with 3 players apiece and the remainder filled in by NPC recruits would be hot stuff. Presumably each PC could party with one other PC/recruit, except the poor schmuck(s) left behind to guard the fort. That would introduce a bit of intra-covenant politiking. Would the covenant leader be able to enforce a certain partying order and force another player to stay in town? Would it be possible to overthrow the covenant leader in such a system? Hmmmm, so many possibilities.

Edit: Oh, sorry I've been absent lately. Just too much going on.

[Shadow]

Kivi is actually a step towards DoP multiplayer since it should be much simpler. Kivi is going to be all about co-op.

Originally Posted by SharpCarlos

Probably too soon for you to answer this, but if we're talking about an expansion that adds multiplayer but no new content, what sort of pricing were you thinking about?

I'm not completely sure, but probably $10 to $15 dollars (although I'm leaning towards the low end of that).

Originally Posted by scragar

I think multiplayer would be good, but I'm not a multiplayer fan for a good reason, I like to take the time to explore, i map out every area as I pass through it, I think that this method of play doesn't suit multiplayer.

I think Kivi multiplayer will suit this style of play fairly nicely.

Originally Posted by scragar

I've also got to ask how you will handle mods, I love experiementing and messing with the game as much as the modding system allows, creating a mage who does one hit kills, but is slow to cast and can't take a single blow is great fun, but how will this work with other players? Will the mod work at all? Maybe for both players? Or just me, and if so what is to prevent cheating?

I would love to play the game against a few friends, I've got to ask though, won't this be server intensive?

The game is already server/client. In general, whatever the server has running is what is going to happen.

Originally Posted by Delve

I'm more curious about whether the covenant structure will change. In a MP world, will more than one PC exist in a covenant? Having 4 covenants with 3 players apiece and the remainder filled in by NPC recruits would be hot stuff. Presumably each PC could party with one other PC/recruit, except the poor schmuck(s) left behind to guard the fort. That would introduce a bit of intra-covenant politiking. Would the covenant leader be able to enforce a certain partying order and force another player to stay in town? Would it be possible to overthrow the covenant leader in such a system? Hmmmm, so many possibilities.

Right now I'm thinking that each person would have their own covenant.