Soldak Home   Drox Operative   Din's Curse   Depths of Peril   Zombasite  

Go Back   Soldak Entertainment Forums > Drox Operative > Invasion of the Ancients
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-27-2013, 03:22 PM
Tuidjy's Avatar
Tuidjy Tuidjy is offline
Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: La La Land (California)
Posts: 847
Default [Balance] What is the defense of Legion's race ships?

I have been genociding the useless races in my current galaxy, so at this point, every sector starts with Legion/Talon/Overlord. I have been noticing that the standard races have absolutely no chance of dealing with, at the very least, the Legion ships. The problem seems to be defense, and well as rather high damage resistances.

The player can always blow through the enemy's defense. Area attacks, stacked computers, over-clockers, attacking from stealth... we have a whole bag of tricks. The races do not.

I handicapped my ship so that it had 94% chance to hit a level 58 ship, and went hunting for Legion ships. Not the elite guard, not 'converts' from another race - plain Legion ships from a planet that started as Legion.

Against an non-debuffed ship, I was getting about 95% misses. I temporarily slotted a few computers, so that I could make stick an EM debuff for 450 and 3 virus debuffs for 580 each. Supposedly at that point, the Legion ship was at -2190 to defense. And guess what? Once I brought my hit chance back to 94%, I was still missing more than 50% of the time. And by the way, it was still hitting me most of the time, despite my very respectable defense of 1200 and its 2190 debuff to attack.

Now lets stop and reflect for a second. Either there are some hidden mechanics, or Legion ships have about 3000 defense at level 58. Why 3000? Because that's what they must have started at, to be able to dodge so well with a 2K debuff. Once again, not a problem for a player who either has attack out the wazzo, or uses unaimed weapons.

But the standard races? It took more than six minutes for 5 Scavengers and 3 Shadow ships to take out one Legion ship that I had let them have at 75% structure (I took down the shields and armor)

I think that someone should look into the Legion's stats. They do not seem to play by the same rules as the other races. I think the Overlord may be the same way, but I have not bothered bringing down my ship's stats to test them.
__________________
No good deed goes unpunished...

Last edited by Tuidjy : 08-27-2013 at 05:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-27-2013, 09:15 PM
Laivasse Laivasse is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 23
Default

By any chance are you fighting 'Backlash' type enemies? They are a Legion ship with some kind of weird defence against manually aimed weapons, which causes the projectile to float harmlessly through them half the time. You can tell when the projectile is going to miss because the graphic changes to a kind of sparkly animation; it's not a standard 'miss'. Against missiles or lasers, these guys are not so hot, if I recall.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-28-2013, 12:08 AM
Tuidjy's Avatar
Tuidjy Tuidjy is offline
Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: La La Land (California)
Posts: 847
Default

No, I was using lasers/viruses. I'm not aware of anything helping against lasers but defense and thermal resistance, and Legion seems to have both in spades. Where my weapons usually hit for over a thousand, against Legion they do less than 100.

And the real problem is that non-monster races can't even scratch them. They use lasers, missiles, and ballistics, and all of these check defense.
__________________
No good deed goes unpunished...
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-28-2013, 12:28 AM
Laivasse Laivasse is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 23
Default

That's interesting. Legion rarely progress beyond a couple of planets in my sectors so I and the other races don't get much chance to go up against them.

Could it be they had some abnormally high level of CPU/shield/armour tech in your sector, due to research, trading or luck? Just exploring all possibilities...
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-28-2013, 01:09 AM
Tyrax Lightning's Avatar
Tyrax Lightning Tyrax Lightning is offline
Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 459
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laivasse View Post
By any chance are you fighting 'Backlash' type enemies? They are a Legion ship with some kind of weird defense against manually aimed weapons, which causes the projectile to float harmlessly through them half the time. You can tell when the projectile is going to miss because the graphic changes to a kind of sparkly animation; it's not a standard 'miss'. Against missiles or lasers, these guys are not so hot, if I recall.
The 'Sparkly Animation' you describe is from the 'Missile Hacker' Component. Backlash have these Components & they have a possible chance to 'Hack' the Missile back to their sender. Especially dangerous to Brunt Characters...

I've never seen any unusual things about Backlash in regards to Aimed Weapons other than Missiles.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-28-2013, 02:42 PM
Tuidjy's Avatar
Tuidjy Tuidjy is offline
Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: La La Land (California)
Posts: 847
Default

I guess I am not getting my point across.

Here are Squishy's stats. Note that the attack is reasonably high, and the critical chance is very high.



This is how Sqishy handles Aurora, which is one of the most dangerous opponents you can find.



This is how Squishy does against a run-of-the-mill monster race ship, that has been debuffed for nearly two thousand defense/attack.



And finally, the problem is not that the players do not know how to handle the monster races. It's that the sentient races cannot.

So I am asking. Is this intended, or not?
__________________
No good deed goes unpunished...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-05-2013, 05:06 AM
Jayne_Cobb's Avatar
Jayne_Cobb Jayne_Cobb is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8
Default

I was thinking about this too, I've gone to do hit and runs on planets, as even
with a high attack bonus my and debuffing by viruses it took an eternity to
take a single ship down, also I was eating through my shield surge.

It also happened to me that in the first 10 minutes two races have been killed
by talon and overlord, on early development and normal pace. Well, that's just
my luck, I thought, as those races where tied to bonus chests this game.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-10-2013, 07:03 AM
Bzzatah Bzzatah is offline
Amateur
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7
Default Radar

I have the exact same issue, but my brother has a much better chance to hit them by stacking radar. We're around level 70 and he has around 1000 radar and hits them >70% of the time with a virus weapon. He is Utopian which helps his attack, but I am Scavenger and can barely hit them. I use a virus/ slowing weapon along with a high damage missile. I usually have to wait for him to deal with them or spam nukes at their planet. Oddly, when I use proximity mines they hit more frequently than missiles or virus/slow.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-10-2013, 12:39 PM
Tuidjy's Avatar
Tuidjy Tuidjy is offline
Elite
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: La La Land (California)
Posts: 847
Default

Guys, there are a ton of ways a player can deal with the high defense monster races. Here's three:

1. Increase your chance to hit enemy.
- Increase your basic accuracy: stack computers, sensors, and radars.
- Give yourself a temporary increase in accuracy: use over-clockers and stealth
- Decrease the enemy's defense: use viruses, EMs, and freezers.
For example, I have a ship that can get to accuracy 200,000. It does not miss.

2. Use area-of-Effect attacks: shockwaves, pulsar generators, bombs, mines, etc...
For example, I have a ship that can fire a geo-magnetic storm generator about 10 times per second. That's about 10,000 damage per tick.

3. Attack the planets. When you have enough fire power, the planet goes poof no matter how many defenders it has.
For example, I have a ship that delivers 40,000 damage per second. It blows up planets accidentally!

My point is that sentient races DO NOT DO any of these, and need tens of minutes to deal with a single Talon/Overlord/Legion ship. While that's going on, monsters pile on them, and wipe them out. If the system has A-o-E monsters, sentient races get wiped out under a minute.
__________________
No good deed goes unpunished...

Last edited by Tuidjy : 09-10-2013 at 01:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-10-2013, 12:46 PM
Tyrax Lightning's Avatar
Tyrax Lightning Tyrax Lightning is offline
Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 459
Default

Non-Aimed Weapons like the EM Shockwave, Geomagnetic Storm, etc. are the way to go. Screw the Computers Stat & anything +Attack related.

My condolences on the Races & their lack of options. Maybe they oughta grab that awesome Bomber Mod that makes Bombers fire actual Bombs, then Equip Bomber Bays to defend against the Legion with...
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2007 - 2021 Soldak Entertainment, Inc.