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  #21  
Old 02-15-2011, 07:45 PM
Max_Powers Max_Powers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisses View Post
I have the hunter tree and barbed arrows. Do you think shuriken is better? Or are they about the same?
Sorry, I really haven't played around much with the Ranger class at all. The best I have done so far is a level 12 trickster/archer.

Hopefully some one else will know.
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  #22  
Old 02-15-2011, 11:12 PM
Max_Powers Max_Powers is offline
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Regeneration:

To me this skill needs to be bumped up a notch, maybe even 50%. To me there should be an option for the Priest to either be a healer, or to have healing on all the time. As it is now, Regeneration is weak and becomes more and more weak as time goes along. My level 55 paladin/weaponmaster is at skill level 8 on regen and it is barely making a difference. Skill level 9 costs 12 skill points and heals 696 health points over 2 minutes. That's not even 350 a minute.

I understand that it is all but impossible to completely balance a game like this and maybe the true classes get most consideration, but as a skill by itself it is just not worth the skill points as you get into higher levels. You'd be better off putting those points elsewhere and buying lots of food.
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  #23  
Old 02-16-2011, 12:40 AM
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DeathKnight1728 DeathKnight1728 is offline
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-The magician needs some sort of magic resistance added to him, as it stands magical traps are almost the biggest killer of chance and it would make sense that the magical spellcaster gets that since he doesnt get a magic mastery.

-Gouge for the trickster is kind of lame. Although your getting a better chance to hit your opponent and crit on them, i find it hard to believe that Gouging someone, doesnt have some bit of damage bonus on it. Even a 1 or 2% damage bonus per level would make sense.

-Sleight of hand should give bonus exp for monsters killing other monsters. That would be the disarm traps skill for the trickster and make sleight of hand an even more reasonable and better skill.

-Make earthquake for the druid class better.

-This has probably been mentioned but.. please redo the warlock summons. They cant handle anything monsters 2 levels higher.
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  #24  
Old 02-16-2011, 01:16 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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I'm going to go out on a limb and make another comment in this thread My rogue has moved on the 10s, and the stealth experience is much better because careless use of it, such as moving in the open around many monsters, not peeking around corners etc. will cause him to be spotted. His limited attack powers mean that he can't fight large groups. Suddenly all those things such as noise levels and search times make a big difference, and the experience is superb.

If this was the desired experience (and I hope it was) then I agree with the original design that he shouldn't have area attack powers. He seems to be designed not to be able to take on massive crowds, preferring to avoid them or take them out one by one. If he's given an area power, it should be expensive and slow so he can't overuse it.

I'm not even sure he should get XP credit for sleight of hand. It's really cool peeking around corners, using it on a boss's goons so they whittle his health down, then going in for the kill. Sleight of hand seems built to make your life as a rogue easier and I'm ok with not getting experience for kills I didn't carry out. I'm also ok with getting little fighting XP since the rogue completes quests faster.

Of course the usual disclaimers apply -- feel free to tell me I'm completely wrong about this, especially at the higher levels.
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  #25  
Old 02-16-2011, 06:21 AM
alstein alstein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathKnight1728 View Post
-The magician needs some sort of magic resistance added to him, as it stands magical traps are almost the biggest killer of chance and it would make sense that the magical spellcaster gets that since he doesnt get a magic mastery.

-Gouge for the trickster is kind of lame. Although your getting a better chance to hit your opponent and crit on them, i find it hard to believe that Gouging someone, doesnt have some bit of damage bonus on it. Even a 1 or 2% damage bonus per level would make sense.

-Sleight of hand should give bonus exp for monsters killing other monsters. That would be the disarm traps skill for the trickster and make sleight of hand an even more reasonable and better skill.

-Make earthquake for the druid class better.

-This has probably been mentioned but.. please redo the warlock summons. They cant handle anything monsters 2 levels higher.
I'd probably rather see the warlock's non-summoning abilities improve personally.

Let the necromancer be the purer charmie class.
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  #26  
Old 02-16-2011, 08:05 PM
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m0stly_harmless m0stly_harmless is offline
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Here's my two cents on things...

I've found that:

(keeping in mind that some of these suggestions are for a non-hybrid character - blending them would make them that much more entertaining)

- The mace, bow & dagger classes of weapons are seriously weak. It makes using characters with this skill unappealing. Requirements for these classes of weapons are too high for the DPS they dish out. (for that matter, their DPS could use a boost too.)
- The plate armour skill is not worth the pain. The requirements to wear the plate compared to their armour points is not worth it. (just like the weapons above.) It should also apply to ALL "warrior" sub-classes and be a "given" skill, like the "attack" skill is, not bought with valuable skill points.
- The Mana regen rate for all classes that have it should be bumped up to a more realistic level, especially since it's mainly for caster classes.
- A weapon master that can't equip staves or bows isn't much of a "weapon master" IMO. (Equip bows at least...)
- Gladiator should be able to equip two-handed weapons (at the sacrifice of equipping a shield).
- Defender's "shield matery" and "blocking" skills are redundant. Combine the two or get rid of one and add an offensive skill.
- Assassin should be able to equip a bow - for that long-distance poke in the back.
- Assassin's skill set is similar mixes of the the same stuff. How about blending some skills from the trickster & thief into it. A good assassin should be able to sneak around and set traps or pick locks.
- Allow the thief to equip short swords.
- The thief should be able to cloak or smoke screen. What's a thief without a little stealth?
- Priests (Paladin, Healer) should be able to equip swords (one & two handers). (think, knight of the round table) Especially considering the mace class of weapons are horrible weapons to start with.
- Shamans should be given an edged weapon option (dagger, short sword).
- Paladins should be given the plate armour option (to be a true paladin).
- Healer's "greater heal", "lesser heal" & "area heal" are overkill. Blend the greater heal & area heal and add an offensive skill.
- The wizard class should be allowed to wear leather armour and maybe use daggers.
- Why does the Ice Mage have a "concentration" skill, but the Fire Mage and Magician do not?
- Allow the Archer to equip an edge weapon.
- Hunter should have a "dead aim" type skill - armour piercing/critical hit type thing. He is a hunter, right?
- The Druid class is a subclass of the ranger, yet cannot equip a bow. Odd. Needs to be changed. Add an edged weapon too.
- The Druid class should have it's basic "Kodiac" and "Stalker" enchantments given a bonus by the weapon (edged gives slashing, mace gives crushing) and armour (better armour bonus with armour worn). This would make the class more entertaining to use.
- The Conjurer class should be allowed to wear leather armour.
- The Necromancer's "Soul Harvest" should also give some health bonus.
- The Necro's "Blight" & "Bone Shatter" DPS should be bumped up a little.
- The Sorcerer's "Thunderbolt" should LIST that it does not always "Freeze Target" anymore - or make it do so (actually, change the term "Freeze" to "Stun" as that's what a thunderbolt would do...). It should also be tied in with lightning mastery. Suggestion: Give it a base "Stun" percentile (say 50%) then make the "Stun" modifier tied in with the "Mastery". The higher the mastery, the better the chance to "Stun" (up to 95%).
- Sorcerer's "Shock Wave" should "Stun" enemies, not "Freeze" them.
- Sorcerer's "Stored Lightning" is pretty useless IMO. Replace with a Lightning based summoned creature seeing as it's the only Conjurer that cannot call up a pet at this point.
- Demonologist's "Demonic Control" should not be time limited. When the pet dies, time to get a new one. Should only affect monsters of the Demon type. Possession should be made BEFORE monster is dead, but NOT when they are at full strength.


*whew* Ok, that's my input for tonight.
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  #27  
Old 02-16-2011, 08:28 PM
Max_Powers Max_Powers is offline
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Adrenaline:

Could it be possible to either have a shorter(even progressively)cool down time, or could it add a movement boost as well? You know, like the whole fight or flight response thing.


Shuriken:

Can either the speed of the shuriken projectile be sped up, or keep the speed the same but limit the projectiles range? This skill, combined with Stealth, are two of my currently favorite skills, so I can't believe I am asking for a potential range limit *shock*

Last edited by Max_Powers : 02-16-2011 at 08:34 PM.
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  #28  
Old 02-16-2011, 08:40 PM
alstein alstein is offline
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I'd argue that instead of easing the chain/plate skills, instead buff up those armor pieces to be worth it? Chain by a little, Plate by a lot.

agreed that mace and dagger require too much stat for the DPS. Bow somewhat less so.

Paladins should get swords at least, Shamans daggers perhaps.

mages and daggers- maybe magician and warlock.

druids to me are mages, not rangers. I'd say buff them up some but take leather away from them and give them capes.

I like the idea for demonogist demonic control. Maybe the HP needed for demonic control should be 15%+5% per level? (so under 20% life for lvl 1, 25% for lvl 2)
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  #29  
Old 02-17-2011, 01:35 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Just a few reactions to the above suggestions:

- Paladins are classified as priest types in the game. Most games don't do this, but that's the way it is in DC. A generic priest has the paladin tree, and within the genre (and AD&D) priests can generally not use piercing weapons. Don't know if we need to stick to that, but I'm just saying where it comes from.
- Along the same lines, mages traditionally can only use staves. I don't see a problem with that. The idea is that they're really not built for fighting.
- I like shuriken too. I'd actually prefer to see long range weapons not work as well in short range. It doesn't make sense that you can throw a shuriken from 1/2 a meter away and get any sort of powerful hit. That'll severely gimp the ranger, I know, but he can always swap between short and long range weapons, and his goal should be to get far away enough that his long-range weapons can do their thing. Maybe that's making his life too hard though.
- Mace, bow and dagger are supposed to be weaker than the other weapons. Well, maybe mace not so much. Regardless, these are limited weapons for classes that are physically limited, though these weapons have their advantages as well. Daggers are faster so they have a better chance of getting stun, critical hit etc. Bows obviously can hit from far away so it makes sense that they'll be weaker. You need to swap to something short-range to hit for more DPS.
- I did find that the requirements for some of my maces were high, even in the beginning. Something like strength in the low 30s, when priests usually don't have that around level 10 unless they're paladins. Haven't had problems with dagger requirements though (in my limited experience).
- I'm ok with the mana regen level, unless they get dramatically worse later in the game. Mana runs out if you overuse it, as it should. Use a potion to get more of it. If you want regen to be faster, put points into it or get items that boost it. Many games don't even give you mana regen at all.
- The skill trees are split up so that the basic classes have their popular skills spread out around their 3 trees (or at least that's the way it should be). While the trees were given names like assassin, thief, gladiator etc. they're really just a mix of skills. They don't need to overlap (for example the thief skill gets caltrops and lock pick, but not stealth). When you create a hybrid, you get a portion of the base class. It's up to you to find the mix that works for you. I think we want each skill tree to offer something good and interesting, as well as a variety of useful skills, not to make each tree live up to the name it was given, by giving it every skill it sounds like it should have. That applies to active skills like stealth (which the 'Thief' tree doesn't have) and it applies to armor/weapon skills too.
- As another example, I don't think the druid needs to have the bow skill just because it's under ranger. If you take the ranger class, you'll get the druid skills. If you just pick the druid tree for your hybrid, you'll get the set of skills that a 'druid' encompasses, which even from the perspective of the proverbial druid doesn't necessitate bows.

As a final comment, I just want to remind everyone that the expansion is very close to release (as in a week or less). Dramatic rebalancing of basic game dynamics won't lead to balance but only to chaos. What we're looking for is suggestions for tweaking certain skills to make them more useful, or perhaps in some dramatic situations, switching a weak, useless skill with a different, more useful one. I think that's how we can help Shadow the most.

Last edited by Bluddy : 02-17-2011 at 01:45 AM.
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  #30  
Old 02-17-2011, 01:58 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Now to my own little comment. I made a warrior/druid, and I have to say the druid is a boring class. The highlight is clearly meant to be turning into other animals, but it's not too useful to be a kodiak, and the experience is quite... uninteresting. I'd much rather turn into a mystery creature -- have it be luck of the draw! I could turn into a useless imp or into a liche if I get lucky. Maybe not, I guess the undead shouldn't be an option. Since we have 2 morphing skills, one could be completely random for longer, while the other could guarantee turning into something stronger, but for a shorter amount of time.
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