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  #11  
Old 02-03-2011, 04:27 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is online now
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I've thought about it some more, and I'm convinced we should at least try modifying vendor behavior.

The current vendor behavior is a carryover from DoP. Vendors:
1. Have an infinite amount of money to buy with.
2. They buy every type of item you have no matter what kind of vendor they are.
3. All vendors have an infinite supply of food and health potions.

These decisions are all weighed heavily in the direction of convenience as opposed to realism, and they were good for DoP. In DoP, running around to find each particular vendor was a pain, so it was good that you could sell everything to one vendor, and buy potions from that vendor no matter who he was. Also, there was no simulation of NPC interaction, so giving them unlimited funds made sense. In any case you sold most things to other factions.

DC has a very different dynamic at this point. What the above rules cause in DC is that:
- I don't care what type of vendor each vendor is since I can sell him everything. He might have an item or 2 I like, but other than that vendors are generic.
- I don't care if a particular vendor starts fights or goes renegade. I care if my steward goes renegade because that has consequences like not getting quests, but I don't care if a vendor goes renegade unless he's the last vendor I have.
- 'Vendors galore' modifiers (or whatever it's called) are boring. Yes I find vendors all around the dungeons, but all it gives me is an easier way to sell all my stuff. It's just a laziness thing.
- One of the big quests is recruiting vendors, but I don't care about it if I already have any vendor in my town.

I really think we need to go in the direction of realism to improve gameplay in this case. DC already has a huge compromise in the direction of convenience, which is placing all the vendors in a circle around the gate! They're all easily available, so why not make their behavior more realistic? That'll allow for more emergent behavior too, since they'll matter more.

What I suggest is
1. Give them a certain amount of money to buy with that'll replenish very slowly over time. Sell them too much and they might go into debt.
2. A vendor should only buy his particular items. That'll make you more aware of what you need to collect to sell. If a vendor leaves town or dies, you just lost a market for your goods.
3. Vendors will only have a few potions/pieces of food to sell, which will replenish very slowly, unless they're specifically potion/food vendors.

These changes would make the type of vendor really matter! Also, I might consider selling my potions (which normally fill up my inventory) to make money if the only vendor in town is a potion vendor.

Vendors galore would be a huge boost because all items would have a market. If a fight breaks out with my potions vendor, I'm going to be very protective of him, even if he's the jerk who started the
fight.

Even if we don't implement all 3 changes, 1 or 2 would go a long way to making vendors more interesting and essential.
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2011, 08:05 AM
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Maledictus Maledictus is offline
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I'm not sure I would like limiting the ability to sell items or to buy potions. That could lead to a situation where I could get stuck, because I have a potion-dependant class. I would then have to wait because the risk of death might not appeal, which in turn would let the game run away from me; things are already on a timer.
I understand the roleplaying things about this, and I like the ideas, but I'm just not sure it would work.

How about this: this was actually done in Throne of Darkness, and I liked it. You put the items you want to get rid of in a 'pot' (meld them down, so to say. make it a function of the smith). At any time you can take 1 item from that pot (which would translate into a random item) but the more you put in first, the better the chance that a nice item comes your way. The pot resets after you take an item out. In a way it's the same as the gambler but it eliminates the money part, and adds a chance/invest system (which I think is always fun) and creates another sinkhole for items. You could do things like: put more swords in, get a higher chance the item coming out is a sword etc.

Sorry if this is a little off-topic, but it just came to me after reading this thread, and I thought it might have some bearing on the matter.

It doesn't really fix the economy things discussed here, but might add a (needed?) twist to the current economy system.

Last edited by Maledictus : 02-03-2011 at 08:15 AM.
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2011, 08:12 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is online now
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The pot idea is interesting.

You make a good point about the merchants. How about this for a compromise then: a merchant who sells/buys something not meant for him will do so at a penalty. So if you buy potions from a non-potion dealer, you'll pay a premium. If you sell potions to a non-potion dealer, you'll get less.

This gives you an incentive to have specific dealers without causing the dead ends you mentioned.
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2011, 08:16 AM
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Maledictus Maledictus is offline
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Yes, much better. Adds role playing but without sacrificing continuity. That could work. And it makes the need for keeping certain people alive that much greater, without running the risk of things grinding to a halt.
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  #15  
Old 02-03-2011, 09:26 AM
ebarstad ebarstad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
The pot idea is interesting.

You make a good point about the merchants. How about this for a compromise then: a merchant who sells/buys something not meant for him will do so at a penalty. So if you buy potions from a non-potion dealer, you'll pay a premium. If you sell potions to a non-potion dealer, you'll get less.

This gives you an incentive to have specific dealers without causing the dead ends you mentioned.
When I first started playing I just assumed this was how the economy worked since I've seen that in other RPGs. I think it would work well and make vendor types more important.
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  #16  
Old 02-03-2011, 02:39 PM
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I think the vendor penalty should be slightly random and it should be higher for higher difficulty levels. By legendary level you could be paying twice as much when you buy from the wrong vendor / losing 50% when selling to the wrong vendor. Maybe even higher.

Shadow, would this one feature be possible to implement?
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  #17  
Old 02-03-2011, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
Shadow, would this one feature be possible to implement?
It's an interesting idea and does fit pretty well with the DC style. I'm not sure I want to do it as the default though. It would greatly change the balance of money and possibly be really frustrating. I might add it as a world setup option though and see how well it works.
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  #18  
Old 02-03-2011, 05:16 PM
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I've always though that it was strange that "Food and Drink" vendors offer their wares at exactly the same prices as any other. Doubly so because none of the vendors actually ever run out of food. Never really seen the point of them.
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  #19  
Old 02-03-2011, 06:33 PM
Max_Powers Max_Powers is offline
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I've had characters experience the myriad of possibilities in Din's. I've had characters go bankrupt. I've had characters with equipment that was close to breaking because there was no way to get them repaired.

I don't see the problem with vendors the way they are now. I mean, I am sure it could use some tweaking, but overall I think what you experience with vendors determines how you view them. Just like someone above said that they have a potion dependent character. If you are not buying from a potion vendor then odds are you are paying full price for the best available potion. This can be overkill as it was what lead one of my chars to going bankrupt. I now stockpile early and bargain shop vendors. Same with my necro and buying/stockpiling food. If you are always paying full price for the best stuff it can lead to problems. If your pet only needs 500 health to be at maximum what is the point in feeding it something that will give it 1500 health points?

Next, I have never seen a vendor other than a potion(maybe a regular)vendor have potions in abundance like MF find, or dexterity potions. Most of my chars are always using and are well stocked on MF potions.

Then, in regard to vendors buying anything - I still don't see what is wrong with that. If I am selling polished turds for a nickel and someone comes up with something that I am certain is worth $1000 and is willing to take $20 bucks for it I would be stupid to turn it down. The mark up/down in this game is large, and to me, that is why any vendor would buy anything.

Why can't we assume that there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes and just leave it somewhere near that? Maybe a vendors displayed money is just his 'for business' money and he has a safe at home that he buys supplies with. Etc, etc... I am with shadow in worrying that some of this could add a lot of frustration. just my two cents.
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  #20  
Old 02-04-2011, 05:31 AM
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Maledictus Maledictus is offline
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About vendors, if I may ask:
Why isn't there a 'mystic' or some such vendor, where you need to go to buy back skill points (like in TQ) ? Now it's simply done in the skills screen, which is convenient but not very roleplay (where does the money go?). Personally I'd like that to be a little more difficult. It's so obvious that I'm sure the idea was discarded a long time ago, just curious as to why.

Last edited by Maledictus : 02-04-2011 at 05:34 AM.
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