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  #1  
Old 07-15-2012, 06:12 AM
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ShaggyMoose ShaggyMoose is offline
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Default Fighter exploit?

You can launch fighters, then un-equip the fighter bay. If you have two fighter bays, you can get a fleet of 10 fighters quite quickly without needing to leave even a single bay equipped. I haven't tried 3 bays yet, but it looks like 10 fighters would be the cap.
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:44 PM
Worthstream Worthstream is offline
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Actually the cap is 5 fighters *per type*.
That means you can in theory have 5 fighters, 5 interceptors, 5 bombers, 5 raiders, and so on. I do agree that the cooldown timer on fighter bays need to be a lot longer, as it stands you can carry a module per type and hot-switch during a battle while you regenerate energy.

Th UI is kind of hard for carrier-type ships, it only shows the first ten summoned, and only in order of time from the first summoned. In practice, even if your ship could support more than ten, you're limited to ten since you have no way of knowing how many are on the battlefield beyond those first ten.

I'm actually using a ship built around fighter bays, and it is fun... really fun!
I do hope that in the near future we can have the list of fighters grouped by type, so that you may know at a glance how many you do need to summon to have a full squadron. It's exactly the same problem summoners used to have in Din's Curse http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2044 only this time it's worse since you can summon more than the ui will show!

Shadow, if you read this post, what about listing fighters this way:

Fighter (x5)
Health bar of the most damaged

Interceptor(x4)
Health bar of the most damaged

and so on?

It's not like anyone will waste a naninte on a fighter and we do need only to know if it would be worth using the energy to summon a new fighter of a certain type, so we care only about the most damaged one.
Maybe you can show the health of the remaining ones in a tooltip?
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:04 PM
LostSoul LostSoul is offline
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The issue with fighters is that they get wiped out ridiculously fast in most engagements. Plasma webs, lightning fields, mines, bombs, and missiles chew them up and spit them out. But I wouldn't want them changed with the current mechanics. Being able to field an entire fleet with a single lowly (level 5ish?) bay and keep them out is cheap. If Shadow fixes that bug though, they definitely need a big overhaul. On their own, used as their mechanics would suggest, they are nigh unto useless. Some ideas (should that bug get fixed but not all of them, just one or two possible changes to go with the fix):

1) No system power requirement. These are power-free weapons that you can stack lots of but have to spend a lot of time replacing or time at power stations refueling to do so. They're less effective weapons overall because they don't require system power to equip.

2) Always launch all five ships (when you launch any, you launch all of them). Even at the best of times, it takes nearly a minute to field all of your ships. Dropping it down to 10 second intervals between resupplies makes actually employing and maintaining them plausible (while still being extremely draining on your energy).

3) 100% of your attack, defense, and resist stats should apply to them. They can barely hit the broad side of a barn most of the time in faction-ship combat.

4) They should benefit from a portion of your ship's armor, shields, or structure boosts (how much is a balancing act depending on what else is or isn't changed), including your "health" regeneration systems (health being armor, shields, and structure)

So I'd say #1 alone would be a good possible change. You could scrape by on your power generation and switch from big guns to drones in exchange for all the limits and weaknesses that go with them. The same with #2. #3 and #4 should probably go together making them into strong and capable ships in their own right such that while you do need to occasionally replace them, they can more than hold their own.
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:49 PM
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ShaggyMoose ShaggyMoose is offline
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Hmmmm, it sounds like you are having a different experience to me LostSoul. What level are you at? I am only level 20 or so.

I have had the same 10 fighter/interceptor escort for a long time. The only thing that really seems to get them killed off quickly is when I wander into a bomb/trap (doh) or attacking a heavily defended planet. Otherwise, their health recharge generally removes my need to replace them. As far as lethality goes, against monsters they are great, against race ships they are about as effective as I am (i.e. not at all).
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Worthstream View Post
Actually the cap is 5 fighters *per type*.
That means you can in theory have 5 fighters, 5 interceptors, 5 bombers, 5 raiders, and so on.
Thanks for clearing that up. I have 5 fighters and 5 interceptors; haven't encountered a 3rd type to let me go to 15 yet. I figured with the UI limitations it would not be allowed. Sounds like you could spam a serious fleet if you wanted to use the slots or had the patience to swap components in-out.

Great idea with the UI change suggestion. I think that would be perfectly workable and also use less screen real estate.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:09 PM
LostSoul LostSoul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaggyMoose View Post
Hmmmm, it sounds like you are having a different experience to me LostSoul. What level are you at? I am only level 20 or so.

I have had the same 10 fighter/interceptor escort for a long time. The only thing that really seems to get them killed off quickly is when I wander into a bomb/trap (doh) or attacking a heavily defended planet. Otherwise, their health recharge generally removes my need to replace them. As far as lethality goes, against monsters they are great, against race ships they are about as effective as I am (i.e. not at all).
Once plasma webs and worse start showing up, it will become increasingly difficult to keep up with the launch cooldowns let alone the energy requirements. By about mid to late 20s I stopped using them entirely.
But it wasn't uniform. Some systems (due to what was spawning there) I could fly around with a cap of 15 ships all day long...and in others they were toast leaving my high and dry after just moments.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:41 PM
Worthstream Worthstream is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostSoul View Post
Once plasma webs and worse start showing up, it will become increasingly difficult to keep up with the launch cooldowns let alone the energy requirements. By about mid to late 20s I stopped using them entirely.
But it wasn't uniform. Some systems (due to what was spawning there) I could fly around with a cap of 15 ships all day long...and in others they were toast leaving my high and dry after just moments.
I'm having an experience like that of ShaggyMoose with fighters. I'm actually flying a lvl 36 ship that has only ever used power/computer viruses as weapons, with a ten fighters escort out all the time. It's quite fun to see them chew through monsters health a little bit at a time. Something like a swarm of piranhas

When you say that it's quite boring having to wait for a lot of time to field them, you're pointing the biggest drawback of using them: it takes too long before you can start flying around. What's worse you can't save and load without losing your entire army and having to field them again!
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:26 PM
jerebaldo1 jerebaldo1 is offline
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I'd say that in the immediate term the most important change is to make the fighters inherit the bonuses from the launching ships to give it scaling parity with other weapons. At the same time we should have the exploit fixed where we can have a ton of fighters out by swapping bays which seems unintended. I'd say that recalling them into the hangar bay to be repaired faster seems like a sensible way to keep them from getting blown up by AOE enemies
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:58 PM
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I had 10 fighters/interceptors attacking a battleship and they literally could not damage it...
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:31 PM
jerebaldo1 jerebaldo1 is offline
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Also, being able to select enemies or planets to see exactly how much shielding/armor/hull they have while fighters are out would be awesome :-).
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