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  #1  
Old 03-15-2011, 10:31 PM
bushwhacker2k bushwhacker2k is offline
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Default Passive Mana Abilities

I noticed a lot of classes have passive abilities that cause them to gain mana when certain events happen.

Striking an enemy, being stricken, parrying or blocking an attack, killing someone, getting a critical hit, etc.

Is there a place I could go to see how effective these are? It seems like some would have to give a nice bit to be useful (killing) whereas some would have to give a tiny amount so as to avoid being overpowered (striking someone/parrying & blocking).

I'm thinking of making a Weaponmaster/Weaponmaster if it turns out to be pretty effective.
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  #2  
Old 03-16-2011, 12:33 AM
Manumitted Manumitted is offline
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From what I've seen, I doubt the boost for any of those passive skills is any more than the Mana Steal obelisk / pool buff (+5/hit). It never seems to be more than a pixel or two on the MP bar. Not very useful to begin with, and it rapidly becomes a drop in the enormous MP pool. It's certainly not enough to keep up with useful levels of whatever MP-using skill that one favors.

It's meant to be a bonus, not something that makes gear, stats, and active skills meaningless.
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  #3  
Old 03-16-2011, 01:16 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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I actually think this is a design issue.

These mana bonuses are a holdover from DoP. You see, in DoP, classes were more sharply defined. The warrior and rogue would never get more mana (called 'rage') than they started with -- INT wouldn't boost mana. They only got mana from hitting/killing etc, and mana would decrease when they were out of combat. This is why most of the warrior and rogue abilities don't scale up their mana costs with levels -- they didn't need to for DoP.

Now that hybrid classes are possible and all classes can increase their mana pools, this throws off a lot of the old mechanics. The passive abilities that increase mana give way too little mana to be noticeable anymore. Even warriors have huge mana pools that they don't really need for their skills. Mage spells don't keep up with the huge mana pools they have.

I'm working on adjusting the mana costs for skills, but it's a shame that the passive abilities can no longer contribute to the game. For them to be relevant in DC, they need to give percentages of max mana rather than specific mana points per hit/crit/kill etc. I really think this is a change Shadow should make as it would bring back that unique mana system and make it relevant again.
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Old 03-16-2011, 01:23 AM
bushwhacker2k bushwhacker2k is offline
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I think I agree overall, since the mana costs are fairly consistently in one range, the classes that get low mana gains from stats suffer somewhat and the classes that get large mana gains pretty much never run out.

I liked DoP's system where all 4 classes had unique energy types.
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  #5  
Old 03-16-2011, 10:06 AM
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Bak Bak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
These mana bonuses are a holdover from DoP.
I definitely had to make mental adjustments when I started playing DC. I was very used to the DoP fighter/thief empty mana pools and needing to build them up.

My fighter has decent mana regen from armor, which has made mana regen from stats unnecessary. (I just need to remember not to dive into combat until I wait a few seconds for the mana gas tank to fill up.)
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Old 03-20-2011, 02:13 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Shadow, I think I've figured out a good way of keeping these mana regen bonuses relevant. They need to use a percentage of total mana, but not mana after boosting -- base mana.

We don't want a half-warrior half-mage to use his warrior skills to fill up his 'mage mana'. We want his warrior bonus to count for his 'rage' part. Therefore, the boost to mana regen from e.g. hitting should be a percentage based on the value of mana per INT and SPR in the classes file rather than the total amount from the skills file.

EDIT: actually that's not good enough. The warrior will get 3 times the mana he's supposed to. My other idea was to tie the amount of the bonus to investment in a particular tree. The more skill points you put in a tree, the more the bonus rises.

Last edited by Bluddy : 03-20-2011 at 02:55 PM.
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  #7  
Old 03-20-2011, 03:29 PM
bushwhacker2k bushwhacker2k is offline
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I just realized except maybe for purposes of critical hit, perception or resistances, intelligence and spirit aren't very useful overall.

I get 0.02 mana regeneration(per second, presumably) from one point in either, thus taking 50 points to get ONE MANA PER SECOND. That is ridiculous.

I got a pair of shoes that gives me 10 mana regen, thus I immediately have no reason to ever use spirit or int again unless it's a character that will definitely never get in melee ever.

---

Actually, DOES mana regen mean mana gained per second?

Last edited by bushwhacker2k : 03-20-2011 at 03:32 PM.
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  #8  
Old 03-21-2011, 05:00 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushwhacker2k View Post
I just realized except maybe for purposes of critical hit, perception or resistances, intelligence and spirit aren't very useful overall.

I get 0.02 mana regeneration(per second, presumably) from one point in either, thus taking 50 points to get ONE MANA PER SECOND. That is ridiculous.

I got a pair of shoes that gives me 10 mana regen, thus I immediately have no reason to ever use spirit or int again unless it's a character that will definitely never get in melee ever.
It's true. If you don't want the crits and resistances, there's no need for INT or SPR. The main reason is that mana costs don't escalate for skills. INT and SPR are supposed to give you just enough mana regen to handle the extra mana they give you. But a non-mage (and even a mage) doesn't really have a need currently for that much extra mana. This is something I'm working on in my balance mod.

Quote:
Actually, DOES mana regen mean mana gained per second?
It does. But mana regen slows during combat to 1/4 of its regular value. It appears that you're supposed to rely on the passive abilities you mentioned above for recharging mana during combat if you need it. Those passive abilities won't help you much if you do have a lot of mana though, and you probably won't miss them since skills use so little mana.
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  #9  
Old 03-21-2011, 09:36 AM
Valgor Valgor is offline
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The Gladiator has a skill (Blood Lust?) that helps improving a character's passive mana gaining abilities, though.
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  #10  
Old 03-21-2011, 10:08 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valgor View Post
The Gladiator has a skill (Blood Lust?) that helps improving a character's passive mana gaining abilities, though.
That's right! I totally missed that. I wonder if it works only on power gain and not regen -- I wouldn't want it working on mana regen.

If we look at DoP (the source of this ability) it was supposed to help you build up mana faster than normal. But in reality, because the passive mana abilities don't keep up with your mana store, this skill isn't really worthwhile. I wonder if I can use this command to make the passive skills improve a little with every skill you buy. The problem would be that I'd want only the skill of the particular tree to improve -- otherwise the warrior would soon get tons of mana.
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