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  #11  
Old 08-21-2009, 06:27 PM
icekrystal10 icekrystal10 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Each town is in its own separate world and all of the quests are randomized, so having an overall story would be a little weird (my opinion of course).
yeah that makes sense. you don't want a deep story and having the hero go on random unrelated quests. i also like the backstory, bonus, goal idea but i'm not sure how easy something like that would be to implement. i think there should be quest chains, but those can be random too.
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  #12  
Old 08-27-2009, 06:34 PM
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torikamal torikamal is offline
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This chain got me thinking a bit about the new town creation. I think the best way to approach this is a combination of random towns and overall goals (as was alluded to earlier).

Premise:
A wizard (not necessarily evil, but definitely not good), has trapped the player in a possibly infinite loop of realities and incarnations (the only thing that remains the same is the soul)
The wizard has somehow informed the player that there are only a few ways to attain permanence: assemble some artifacts:

Gameplay translation:
(this part is partially borrowing from a previous user's idea) the player must play through X many dungeons as a warrior. At the end of each dungeon is a leg, then an arm etc... (basically the player is assembling a statue of him/herself for each class and this will be visually carried through each new world by a statue of each class in their various states of completion. Maybe each game only begins with a wizard, a warrior and a rogue. (perhaps initially it would be randomized so that the character could not choose their class. However, when they fully assemble one particular class, they can choose that class every time, and the class options open up when they fully assemble each individual statue by class). When all three classes are finally assembled, the character can then choose which character to use and when they start the next new world, they have the option of questing for a new class. It makes sense that there might be 5 - 10 new classes. When all the classes are assembled, the character can then begin a new world questing for pieces of the artifact that will allow him to escape the world. At the end of these dungeons there will be one piece of the artifact and when they have assembled all the pieces, they put it together and find out that it is a portal back into the real world. However, it also leaves them access to come back into this infinite reality and quest as much as they want.

Once they have the portal artifact assembled, they then can quest for world modifier specific artifacts that are at the end of each dungeon, but tied to some parameter of the world--this would provide some really long gameplay because these could also be artifacts that each have several pieces and since the worlds are random, it might take a really long time to collect them all. Plus a future expansion might add a lot more. Phew. Didn't mean for this to get this long.
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  #13  
Old 08-28-2009, 03:22 PM
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Delilah Rehm Delilah Rehm is offline
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I've thought a lot about having an overarching character goal, and I have some ideas. BUT... it always feels like the B story in a movie. It isn't really what the game's about.

What I love about the overarching story in Depths of Peril is that once it's complete, you can access a secret from one of the short stories. I'd really like to have something like that again, though so far in game three (which really needs a name!), there are no main bosses. Each town has its own problems.

And that - random town, random problems - makes naming this game so hard!
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  #14  
Old 10-10-2009, 12:57 PM
keith.lamothe keith.lamothe is offline
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Pretty sure the Din's Curse title and backstory came after the last post in this thread, but I wanted to chime in on the overarching-goal thing.

Remember Valkyrie Profile? Most of the gameplay was in Midgard, and mostly unconnected dungeons and characters, but you were raising Einherjar to fight for Odin in a much more connected and important overarching story. Then there was the secret branch/ending, but I digress.

I don't know enough about the DoP/Kivi/Din backstory to know viable a conflict-between-the-gods is, but something like that could provide enough backdrop for some overarching meaning and continuity between towns. Perhaps a structure like this:

1) new character
2) story about Din sending you to help the first town, etc
3) first town generated and played, a "score" of sorts is assigned to how well the player did (possibly very negative)
4) player sent to a psuedo "town" in Din's realm/plane/whatever for a single mission on behalf of Din (probably just training the first time around)
5) second town generated and played, scored
6) player sent back to Din's psuedo-town, gets another mission depending on player score and level
7) third town, etc, etc

This way you're using the same town and mission structure as the normal game.

The intermission missions (no pun intended) could be pretty varied and use a similar randomized pattern as the normal stuff. For example:
- the god of fire has sent a spy into our realm, find him and capture/kill him
- the god of fire has sent an ARMY into our realm, join the fight and do your best (this could be way above the players level, counterbalanced with some huge mission-only percentage buffs from Din)
- we're sending a team to recover a powerful artifact from a dungeon in enemy territory, join the team and ensure success

A separate way of tying the metagame in would be to have the player encounter NPCs who are similar to his previous incarnation: selfish, candidates for Din's curse. Perhaps Din has charged the player to try to turn those wayward souls to a better path before reincarnation is necessary; perhaps Din has charged the player to kill the particularly bad ones so the reincarnation process can get started sooner rather than later. Perhaps what Din said doesn't matter and the player does one or other anyway. Perhaps those NPCs which die and are cursed by Din's team can become significant in the intermission world (like the Einherjar in Valkyrie Profile) and team up with the player on those missions.

Not to go on too long, but maybe enemies of Din or otherwise made by the player in the inter-missions could pop up in the ordinary town missions and try to mess things up.

Anyway, the backstory may not accommodate any of this, but it seemed worth mentioning.

Thanks for your games, they're quite interesting,
Keith

Edit: on the "things can go very, very wrong" issue, well, good Maybe the worst case scenario is Din's realm gets overrun and the player has to cut loose and be a sole agent, and can continue to help towns if they want to but no more inter-missions. Or if they want they can export/import the character to start from the beginning again (with their levels and such intact, of course, things should scale fine). As long as the player can always start fresh without losing character development, I'm all for massively bad consequences for really messing up.

Last edited by keith.lamothe : 10-10-2009 at 01:01 PM.
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  #15  
Old 10-11-2009, 10:17 AM
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Interesting ideas Keith and welcome to the forums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keith.lamothe View Post
Edit: on the "things can go very, very wrong" issue, well, good Maybe the worst case scenario is Din's realm gets overrun and the player has to cut loose and be a sole agent, and can continue to help towns if they want to but no more inter-missions. Or if they want they can export/import the character to start from the beginning again (with their levels and such intact, of course, things should scale fine). As long as the player can always start fresh without losing character development, I'm all for massively bad consequences for really messing up.
A player can always start a new town if the current town goes bad for them.
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2009, 10:30 AM
keith.lamothe keith.lamothe is offline
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Yes, I remember that from DoP, I was speaking in context of the overarching missions/psuedo-town where theoretically the situation could be unrecoverable.

Out of curiosity, would ever consider a meta-town like that which persists for that character? Or are there implementation difficulties or other reasons you don't want to go that way?

Last edited by keith.lamothe : 10-11-2009 at 10:32 AM. Reason: adding something
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  #17  
Old 10-12-2009, 09:28 AM
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I try to consider everything. I know it doesn't always appear like that since I don't always reply much. I do read everything that gets posted here and consider it. Sometimes things make it in that were ideas from you guys and I never commented on it at all, so you never know. As for the Din side of things, I'm really not sure what we are going to do yet.
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  #18  
Old 10-12-2009, 09:38 AM
keith.lamothe keith.lamothe is offline
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Actually from reading the threads here it looks like you reply a lot and that it is worthwhile for users to make suggestions. I was just asking if there was anything about what I suggested that makes you wince from the perspective of how much programming effort would be involved, how badly it would fit with the backstory, or it just not giving enough "payoff" to be worth significant modifications, etc. I could then try and refine it to something more reasonable.

But if there's nothing in particular like that, I can just return to awaiting the game
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  #19  
Old 10-12-2009, 02:01 PM
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I think this specific idea is pretty cool, reminds me some of Legacy of Kain. With our thoughts of the gods and their realms, there really wouldn't be anything for a mortal to do there though. The gods wars between each other would be fought in the mortal plane, not really in their own. If Din showed up into the normal towns occasionally that might work though.
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  #20  
Old 10-12-2009, 02:21 PM
keith.lamothe keith.lamothe is offline
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Yea, it would be odd for a level 5 mortal to have any place in the battle of the gods anyway.

How about special goals not necessarily related to saving/serving the town? Like:

- Din asks you to track down and slay a particular former-mortal who he had brought back for a rehabilitation similar to your own, but the guy disobeyed and ran off. The guy could be hidden in some cave, and would never bother the town, but he's got to go. Or he could be disguised as one of the town's people. Who knows, he could be one of the town elders at this point. Perhaps the player only has so many game minutes to find the person before they escape to some other world.

- Din asks you to try to turn a particular person away from the selfish path so they don't have to be reincarnated-rehabilitated like you; this would be more of a quest and dialog based thing, maybe a quest chain finding out about the person, helping them, etc; so I guess it could be a bit beyond what you want but I thought I'd mention it.

- Din asks you to find a powerful artifact hidden somewhere in the world, perhaps guarded by some far-more-powerful-than-the-surroundings extra-worldly folk. Maybe getting the artifact unleashes said powerful folk upon the town, making the achievement of the special goal put the primary goal (saving the town) at risk. Maybe that group starts from some other part of the map and moves towards the artifact, if they get there first they get it and disappear, only to be a major thorn in later worlds.

- Din didn't know about it but there was such an artifact and if you find it you can give it to him. Or not, and keep it for yourself. Or give it to some other god and seek their help in removing Din's curse (getting special goals from them, perhaps mutually exclusive with Din's goals). I don't know if you want to expand the scope in that direction, though.

The outcome of these special goals could have impact on the underlying "persistent" world in terms of enemies/friends made that might warp into your world to hurt/help you, availability of "higher-level" special missions, etc.

Anyway, the idea of having two (or more) parallel sets of goals could give the player more choices and tradeoffs. Do I risk the town to get that artifact? Do I play it safe and risk some powerful foe getting away and becoming more dangerous and striking at me in later worlds?

Last edited by keith.lamothe : 10-12-2009 at 02:24 PM. Reason: typos
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