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  #11  
Old 03-23-2011, 08:25 PM
derf derf is offline
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Is there a weapon/armor list somewhere that shows attribute requirements? If not how much str should I get for good late game bow and leather armor?

I made a farcher and found out that exploding arrow is basically just a very cheap fireball. Only difference is it takes .2 seconds longer to cast and requires a bow but at a permanent 8 mana I can cast it indefinitely thanks to a few +3 mana regen armors I've got.

Even so I think I'm better off going with a huntadin and maxing dex, with a few levels of bravery I'll have so much defense I probably don't get hit. I lose aoe but I can spam serrated arrow just as easy as exploding arrow and a a ton easier than fireball or frost nova. It adds 15% dmg per level instead of 10%(or 8% if ice) plus 20% crit and deep wound chance. This is then applied to whatever bow I got rather than a static 50-100 dmg. Serrated arrow also costs less skill points than mastery, especially since I dont need an initial investment in exploding arrow or whatever mage attack.

At character level 10 I already need a couple lvl 3 exploding arrow shots to kill mobs on normal difficulty. I just don't see my aoe spam working very well later on, mastery or not. Right now I'm actually getting way higher than 10% dmg gain per level of exploding arrow and it isn't cutting it. Mage might not be totally useless, but it does look pretty bad compared to archer unless there is some better way than aoe spam to deal with mobs as a mage.

If nothing else this has made me realize bow is pretty decent, which is good because I can't stand chasing everything down in melee with the stupid diablo controls. Is there any possibility of implementing keyboard movement?
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  #12  
Old 03-24-2011, 12:10 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by derf View Post
Is there a weapon/armor list somewhere that shows attribute requirements? If not how much str should I get for good late game bow and leather armor?

I made a farcher and found out that exploding arrow is basically just a very cheap fireball. Only difference is it takes .2 seconds longer to cast and requires a bow but at a permanent 8 mana I can cast it indefinitely thanks to a few +3 mana regen armors I've got.

Even so I think I'm better off going with a huntadin and maxing dex, with a few levels of bravery I'll have so much defense I probably don't get hit. I lose aoe but I can spam serrated arrow just as easy as exploding arrow and a a ton easier than fireball or frost nova. It adds 15% dmg per level instead of 10%(or 8% if ice) plus 20% crit and deep wound chance. This is then applied to whatever bow I got rather than a static 50-100 dmg. Serrated arrow also costs less skill points than mastery, especially since I dont need an initial investment in exploding arrow or whatever mage attack.

At character level 10 I already need a couple lvl 3 exploding arrow shots to kill mobs on normal difficulty. I just don't see my aoe spam working very well later on, mastery or not. Right now I'm actually getting way higher than 10% dmg gain per level of exploding arrow and it isn't cutting it. Mage might not be totally useless, but it does look pretty bad compared to archer unless there is some better way than aoe spam to deal with mobs as a mage.

If nothing else this has made me realize bow is pretty decent, which is good because I can't stand chasing everything down in melee with the stupid diablo controls. Is there any possibility of implementing keyboard movement?
Good observations. Bow skills will always be easier to use since they scale with your DPS. They'll need far less investment, whereas all mage skills need constant investment throughout the game to be useful. That's just the way the system is, especially since right now you have to buy 2 skills: the spell you want + mastery.

Also, DPS can grow very very fast while spells are limited to certain damage curves.

To enable you to get all bows, you need to make sure to invest in DEX. Right now bows have a very high DEX requirement (not sure why) and a lower STR requirement. If you're investing in DEX, you're fine.
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  #13  
Old 03-24-2011, 12:27 PM
forevernomad forevernomad is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post

Also, DPS can grow very very fast while spells are limited to certain damage curves.
Couldn't we just have staff DPS as a base modifier for offensive spell power?


Also, Bluddy, quit reverse stalking me
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  #14  
Old 03-24-2011, 02:46 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by forevernomad View Post
Couldn't we just have staff DPS as a base modifier for offensive spell power?

Also, Bluddy, quit reverse stalking me


It's possible, but not with the current system. It'd take a completely different magic system from what we have. Also I'm not sure how much it makes sense that the physical damage of a weapon will also determine its magical damage. I thought of an idea of giving each weapon a magic power, with staffs being strongest, but again this is a different system from what we have.

I'm hoping it'll be possible to balance the scaling skills and the non-scaling skills so that both are worthwhile. I'll get to that soon in my balance mod. What it essentially means is that scalable skills need to be nerfed so that to get a really powerful boost, you need to invest a lot of points -- more than you would need for a non-scaling spell. Non-scaling skills need to cheaper ie. they'll allow you to reach full power for cheaper.
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  #15  
Old 03-24-2011, 04:48 PM
forevernomad forevernomad is offline
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I kind of imagined that staffs did magic damage rather than physical damage for some reason.
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  #16  
Old 03-24-2011, 06:15 PM
derf derf is offline
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Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
I'm hoping it'll be possible to balance the scaling skills and the non-scaling skills so that both are worthwhile. I'll get to that soon in my balance mod. What it essentially means is that scalable skills need to be nerfed so that to get a really powerful boost, you need to invest a lot of points -- more than you would need for a non-scaling spell. Non-scaling skills need to cheaper ie. they'll allow you to reach full power for cheaper.
Can you not vary the increase in damage for skills? Are you for example forced to set it at a constant 5-10 damage per level?

By character level x you have enough points for skill level x. Make the skill at that level do damage comparable to a standard weapon, bow or sword/axe/mace depending what skill it is, of equal level requirement.

If relying on skills to do all of your damage, like a pure mage, you would be spending more skill points to have a similar damage output. You wouldn't have to rely on gear or its attribute requirements so much though, and this could balance by also doing what you say about adjusting the skill costs.

As for my build, works with hunter and whatever hybrid one chooses, I am using paladin for extra 50% def from lvl 10 bravery.

Level 20 serrated arrow would cost 210 skill points, that leaves me 114 to spend on lvl 10 net trap and lvl 10 bravery or whatever else I need to survive.

lvl 20 SA= 4x crit and DW chance, and 3x dmg
for 100% DW I'd need 230 dex
for 100% Crit I'd need 200 int

I can have a bow attack that gives triple damage, and crits and deep wounds every time. I wonder if the crit and deep wound apply before or after the 3x damage?

So I still have 114 skill points and 66 attribute points to work with. If endgame bows will require more than 51 str I wont max out my dex or maybe lower my crit chance to compensate. This is assuming none of my gear gives extra attribute points, which it undoubtedly will.

I'm not exactly sure how defense works out at 250 base dex, which is 1250 with this build, but I can probably run around armorless with my bow and a 10 levels of bravery, 50% attack/defense, and be fine.

Last edited by derf : 03-24-2011 at 06:56 PM.
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  #17  
Old 03-25-2011, 02:56 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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My balance mod already gives quite a bit more per mage skill level. Most spells are AOE though so you don't want to give them as much damage.

The problem with matching spells to DPS is that DPS ranges widely. Warriors and half-warriors get insane boosts to DPS from their strength. It's very hard to match that or predict it (though I do collect samples).
Also with casting gloves, DPS rises for mages too -- especially on the non-AOE spells.

Just looking at serrated arrow (which you already looked at), that skill is ridiculously cheap. Taking it to level 20 will consume only 18% of your skill points -- less than a 5th. But it'll allow you to kill just about anything but bosses, what with 3x damage and then a high chance of crit so it's around 6x damage, not to mention extra damage from deep wounds (don't know how much that is). Actually the deep wounds part will be most effective since you have to have relatively high DEX as an archer.

So you don't need to invest in any other offensive skill. And it has no cooldown timer and uses almost no mana.
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  #18  
Old 03-25-2011, 05:43 AM
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Antigrav Antigrav is offline
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My hunter/reaver (only level 14 now) uses serrated arrow, but it does have a big drawback {old archery pun}: it's treated as a "cast" and so you're rooted for a couple of seconds while you fire it. I generally only use it on the first attack, because with bow attacks, I need to run around, or kite, to keep the ranged advantage. With that tactic, which isn't at all as tedious as needing to eat and drink potions every couple of minutes, I remain untouched and can effectively take out a roomful of things in less time than a melee character can respawn and run back for his soulstone.
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  #19  
Old 03-25-2011, 06:42 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Antigrav View Post
My hunter/reaver (only level 14 now) uses serrated arrow, but it does have a big drawback {old archery pun}: it's treated as a "cast" and so you're rooted for a couple of seconds while you fire it. I generally only use it on the first attack, because with bow attacks, I need to run around, or kite, to keep the ranged advantage. With that tactic, which isn't at all as tedious as needing to eat and drink potions every couple of minutes, I remain untouched and can effectively take out a roomful of things in less time than a melee character can respawn and run back for his soulstone.
I'll keep that in mind when balancing. Just to give perspective, though, ALL offensive mage spells require standing ie. mages can't kite at all.
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  #20  
Old 03-28-2011, 01:21 PM
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Shadow Shadow is offline
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Strength does not effect magic crushing blows.
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