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  #21  
Old 02-25-2011, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Baki View Post
maybe it would be a good idea to limit town creation to +-10 charlvl
I think it should be possible to create towns with -100 charlevel --- for example if I wanted to host a game with a high level character for someone else's lower level character. But the +10 limit is fair enough.
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  #22  
Old 02-25-2011, 02:54 PM
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This is more of a small addition that anything else, and not really required.

But with the new patch (I went for .010 DC to .022 DW), movement speed items (boots is all I've found so far) have become far more prevalent.

There isn't a stat on the character screen showing effective movement speed (base + any additional modifiers) that I could find.
So I was wondering if this could be added in to one of the new patches, since it got me really curious now with the movement bonus prevalence.
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  #23  
Old 02-26-2011, 03:51 PM
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DeathKnight1728 DeathKnight1728 is offline
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There's one thing I will say about summons. Necromancers obviously have a much easier walk in the park with regards to making any possible "good" summoner. This is because of raise dead. Skeletons and skeleton archers on the other hand are almost useless. What is good however, is Ive read one person that managed to get a healer/necromancer type summoning build to work. They only used skeletons and champion and could take out anything. Other than that, (like the wizard) I cant find that many other builds that work.

Now what i find that is even worse is the warlock. The screes are hopeless, with each level they get faster which doesnt help when they have almost no damage. The last guy on the list-chaos lord isnt needed as you only get one. If he was to be useful maybe you could get 2. The only 1 choice (like the necromancer's one choice) is furies. They have decent damage, sometimes stun, and you can get a few of them. The only problem is that they die off very easy.

I think that the warlock class needs quite a bit of work. The mastery they get isnt very good. If this could change, i would add a 5% bonus to monster life for demon mastery and maybe up the damage bonus to 6%. This wont make them stronger than the necro, but it might help as they are not very desirable as is.
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  #24  
Old 02-27-2011, 02:20 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by DeathKnight1728 View Post
There's one thing I will say about summons. Necromancers obviously have a much easier walk in the park with regards to making any possible "good" summoner. This is because of raise dead. Skeletons and skeleton archers on the other hand are almost useless. What is good however, is Ive read one person that managed to get a healer/necromancer type summoning build to work. They only used skeletons and champion and could take out anything. Other than that, (like the wizard) I cant find that many other builds that work.

Now what i find that is even worse is the warlock. The screes are hopeless, with each level they get faster which doesnt help when they have almost no damage. The last guy on the list-chaos lord isnt needed as you only get one. If he was to be useful maybe you could get 2. The only 1 choice (like the necromancer's one choice) is furies. They have decent damage, sometimes stun, and you can get a few of them. The only problem is that they die off very easy.

I think that the warlock class needs quite a bit of work. The mastery they get isnt very good. If this could change, i would add a 5% bonus to monster life for demon mastery and maybe up the damage bonus to 6%. This wont make them stronger than the necro, but it might help as they are not very desirable as is.
The reason raise dead is so powerful is that you raise a monster of the exact level of one you kill, as opposed to all the other create pet spells, where you create monsters whose level corresponds to a fraction of your level + a bonus based on however many spell levels you have. I'd say this is a pretty serious imbalance. A necromancer needs only to invest once in raise dead. He'll then have a monster that keeps up with the dungeon level. All other pet spells require constant investment or as they go up in level, their monsters will be less and less effective. Thus, the other spells fall into the category of 'spells you need to put all your points into if you want to keep up'.

Let's take a peek at the fury spell. To keep a fury at the level of your character, you would have to invest in the fury spell every 4 levels. You get around a total of 1124 skill points in the game, of which about 674 need to be used to take the fury all the way to level 30. Half of your skill point would have to be used just on the fury. If we account for the fact that you get 1/4 of a fury every skill level, you would need to upgrade the fury skill every 5 levels to keep up. This would cost you about 1/3 of your skill points. The screes are a worse deal in terms of how often you need to upgrade, and chaos lords are the worst deal since it's also much more expensive point-wise.

The necromancer's raise dead spell is more along the lines of what the stronger classes have. Other classes generally don't need to keep investing in specific skills unless they want to, to boost their damage output.

I would change it so that, rather than getting monster levels per spell level, you get a percentage of the player's level count. Thus, monster would start out at 50% of a player's level and would gradually get more and more percentage points per level. If you keep investing, they'd surpass the player's level. Also, to balance out the necromancer, raised monsters should get a % level drop when you raise them. Keep investing in the skill and that level drop would disappear.

Last edited by Bluddy : 02-27-2011 at 02:38 AM.
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  #25  
Old 02-27-2011, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
The reason raise dead is so powerful is that you raise a monster of the exact level of one you kill, as opposed to all the other create pet spells, where you create monsters whose level corresponds to a fraction of your level + a bonus based on however many spell levels you have. I'd say this is a pretty serious imbalance. A necromancer needs only to invest once in raise dead. He'll then have a monster that keeps up with the dungeon level. All other pet spells require constant investment or as they go up in level, their monsters will be less and less effective. Thus, the other spells fall into the category of 'spells you need to put all your points into if you want to keep up'.

Let's take a peek at the fury spell. To keep a fury at the level of your character, you would have to invest in the fury spell every 4 levels. You get around a total of 1124 skill points in the game, of which about 674 need to be used to take the fury all the way to level 30. Half of your skill point would have to be used just on the fury. If we account for the fact that you get 1/4 of a fury every skill level, you would need to upgrade the fury skill every 5 levels to keep up. This would cost you about 1/3 of your skill points. The screes are a worse deal in terms of how often you need to upgrade, and chaos lords are the worst deal since it's also much more expensive point-wise.

The necromancer's raise dead spell is more along the lines of what the stronger classes have. Other classes generally don't need to keep investing in specific skills unless they want to, to boost their damage output.

I would change it so that, rather than getting monster levels per spell level, you get a percentage of the player's level count. Thus, monster would start out at 50% of a player's level and would gradually get more and more percentage points per level. If you keep investing, they'd surpass the player's level. Also, to balance out the necromancer, raised monsters should get a % level drop when you raise them. Keep investing in the skill and that level drop would disappear.
Very good idea bluddy. But I just thought of something else. What if instead of a percentage per level, the pet starts off at whatever level you are. Every 2 levels the pet goes up by 1 level. So if you are lvl 20 and have a lvl 10 scree, the scree will be lvl 25. Thats actually not too bad if you are an average gamer. At level 20 the scree will always be 10 levels higher than you. This is good. Most people would like to do worlds 4-6 higher than their own. The demon is 4 lvls higher than any worlds 6 levels higher than their character. Then add demon mastery (which will hopefully be improved), and you have a decent summoner.

Last edited by DeathKnight1728 : 02-27-2011 at 12:46 PM.
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  #26  
Old 02-27-2011, 01:42 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by DeathKnight1728 View Post
Very good idea bluddy. But I just thought of something else. What if instead of a percentage per level, the pet starts off at whatever level you are. Every 2 levels the pet goes up by 1 level. So if you are lvl 20 and have a lvl 10 scree, the scree will be lvl 25. Thats actually not too bad if you are an average gamer. At level 20 the scree will always be 10 levels higher than you. This is good. Most people would like to do worlds 4-6 higher than their own. The demon is 4 lvls higher than any worlds 6 levels higher than their character. Then add demon mastery (which will hopefully be improved), and you have a decent summoner.
I think 10 levels higher than your character is overkill Remember that as you're gaining levels, the screes also multiply. Higher level monsters also tend to decimate lower level ones.

The problem in this case is the mixing of percentages and levels. My idea wasn't that great either. If you keep adding percentages, eventually you'll end up with, say 20% or whatever higher than your level. At 80 your scree will be level 96! So that's not a good idea. I think the monsters should just start lower than your level by a couple of levels, and then VERY slowly bridge the gap as they also multiply. It shouldn't be that if I don't keep investing points in my fury, he'll be a level 42 when I'm level 60. That just doesn't make sense. It's not even like a low level attack -- he'll just get wiped out right away.

EDIT: I just noticed the fact that pets get boosts to their attack/defense and such. I'm going to have to reconsider my words here. Maybe a small improvement is all that's needed.

Last edited by Bluddy : 02-27-2011 at 02:26 PM.
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  #27  
Old 02-27-2011, 05:31 PM
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As much as I love the randomness that allows drops like this...




The animation just can't keep up with speeds like that.

Another thing I noticed recently, now that I found a weapon speed bow.
Bows also have an animation issue with speeds in the 0.5 and below range.


Maybe we can put a cap on the weapon speeds.
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  #28  
Old 02-27-2011, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
I think 10 levels higher than your character is overkill Remember that as you're gaining levels, the screes also multiply. Higher level monsters also tend to decimate lower level ones.

The problem in this case is the mixing of percentages and levels. My idea wasn't that great either. If you keep adding percentages, eventually you'll end up with, say 20% or whatever higher than your level. At 80 your scree will be level 96! So that's not a good idea. I think the monsters should just start lower than your level by a couple of levels, and then VERY slowly bridge the gap as they also multiply. It shouldn't be that if I don't keep investing points in my fury, he'll be a level 42 when I'm level 60. That just doesn't make sense. It's not even like a low level attack -- he'll just get wiped out right away.

EDIT: I just noticed the fact that pets get boosts to their attack/defense and such. I'm going to have to reconsider my words here. Maybe a small improvement is all that's needed.
That is true. Maybe if it goes up every 4 levels. At lvl 30 (which rarely happens-it would be 7+ levels.) At the max which rarely would happen, the monster would be a little buffed. I find that Since most people wouldnt get it to that point it wouldnt be a problem. 25 Would be more reasonable of a level for the average gamer. That would be 6. In order to make this work, I was thinking if the max creatures you can summon be set to 5. Im not sure how much that would hurt certain creatures. The chaos lord would need to get a bit more powerful if that change was ever to happen. I dont see the need to have more than 5 creatures at one time, especially if some are champions. Idk, would tampering with max creatures actually be a good thing if the creatures were brought up?
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  #29  
Old 02-27-2011, 10:29 PM
Srulz Srulz is offline
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Originally Posted by The Coffee God View Post
As much as I love the randomness that allows drops like this...

snip

The animation just can't keep up with speeds like that.

Another thing I noticed recently, now that I found a weapon speed bow.
Bows also have an animation issue with speeds in the 0.5 and below range.


Maybe we can put a cap on the weapon speeds.
NO !

Please don't nerf my Thief / Druid I mean, there's nothing -really- wrong with attacking too fast that the character appears to not be even moving..it is logical! The movement is too fast to catch with one's eyes..

Besides, it's the only way the single-attack hybrids would be able to catch up to other multi-attacking melees..
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2011, 11:15 PM
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DeathKnight1728 DeathKnight1728 is offline
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NO !

Please don't nerf my Thief / Druid I mean, there's nothing -really- wrong with attacking too fast that the character appears to not be even moving..it is logical! The movement is too fast to catch with one's eyes..

Besides, it's the only way the single-attack hybrids would be able to catch up to other multi-attacking melees..
I have to agree that nerfing that wouldnt be cool. I eventually want to make an assassin/druid with the same mindset. I wouldnt really worry about it though as there are much more important things to focus on. If you make it past .05 seconds however, i dont know how much faster you can want it
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