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  #11  
Old 02-26-2011, 03:54 PM
Baki Baki is offline
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Originally Posted by The Coffee God View Post
At my current point spread for my character, min goes up for every 3 strength points, while max goes up every 1 point.
you dont have to be a genius to come up with an explanation for that

Last edited by Baki : 02-26-2011 at 03:56 PM.
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  #12  
Old 02-26-2011, 05:23 PM
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Arjun123 Arjun123 is offline
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There appears to be a minor bug involving the use of the acid, poison, etc. that one collects with vials. When I use them, the animation and (relatively loud) sound effect continues long after the increased damage expires. In fact, the only way to get rid of them is to save and then reload the game. It would be nice if the animation and sound effects ended when the effect times out, so that one can easily know when the buff is no longer active.
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  #13  
Old 02-27-2011, 08:27 PM
tacitus tacitus is offline
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Gate naming truncation : the surface gate for reads "Dead Wind Catacombs lvl" with a scroll bar covering the numbers. (I play with large dungeons)

Large dungeon issue - most of the time when large dungeons are chosen quests are rarely distributed through the entire dungeon. Quest levels rarely goes past 7 or 8.
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  #14  
Old 02-27-2011, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by tacitus View Post
Gate naming truncation : the surface gate for reads "Dead Wind Catacombs lvl" with a scroll bar covering the numbers. (I play with large dungeons)

Large dungeon issue - most of the time when large dungeons are chosen quests are rarely distributed through the entire dungeon. Quest levels rarely goes past 7 or 8.
I've seen quests go to level 16+. In one sad multiplayer game there were 23 levels -- and quests all the way to the bottom
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  #15  
Old 02-27-2011, 10:57 PM
tacitus tacitus is offline
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Originally Posted by Crisses View Post
I've seen quests go to level 16+. In one sad multiplayer game there were 23 levels -- and quests all the way to the bottom
Must just be luck of the draw - its very strange, I have probably done at least 10 large dungeons and all of them have had the manditory quests under level 8. Probably my next world will have them all stacked at the bottom; when I complain about something the next time I run the issue has gone away.
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  #16  
Old 02-28-2011, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
The thing is, monster mages already have significantly lower damage because of the fact that they get fewer strength points per level, and their strength to damage ratio is lower (0.5 to 1). For example at level 40, their max damage is 50 vs other monsters' 80. Multiply that by 0.6 (I assume 0.3 physical and 0.3 lightning means the attack does both at the same time?) and now their attack is 0.625*0.6 = 0.375 of a regular monster's attack. Their attacks get weaker and weaker relative to the main monsters as the levels go up. I think mages should instill fear, especially in characters with weak elemental resistance, but instead they're pitiful.

Also, what is the reason for splitting their attack 50-50 between elemental and physical? The problem with this is that it minimizes even more the elemental damage in the game, making elemental resistance even less necessary (which is probably the reason people didn't notice the elemental resistance formula being off, since elemental resistance counts for little).
Assuming I'm remembering correctly, monsters don't actually get a strength damage bonus so this shouldn't be an issue.

The damage split is because some things are pretty immune to certain types of elements and things work better if the monsters always have the chance to do some damage. For example, a monster that does pure poison damage could never break down a door that is in the way.
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2011, 11:30 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Assuming I'm remembering correctly, monsters don't actually get a strength damage bonus so this shouldn't be an issue.

The damage split is because some things are pretty immune to certain types of elements and things work better if the monsters always have the chance to do some damage. For example, a monster that does pure poison damage could never break down a door that is in the way.
They don't get a strength bonus? Do they use ClassMonsterGeneric? Because that uses ClassGenericBase, which has a 1.0 strength/damage conversion ratio. How is their health calculated then? How is critical hit calculated? Defense?

I thought they use ClassMonsterGeneric or ClassMonsterMage/Priest and then override some values with the values in BaseMonsters.gdb (which seem like only partial values). Do I have it wrong? I saw that you changed a value in ClassGenericBase between assets001.zip and assets003.zip so I thought those values must be used.

EDIT: I tested it and saw the damage multiplier doesn't affect things. I guess it was easier to individualize races by adjusting their damage directly. I'm still curious as to how critical hits are calculated for monsters.

For breaking doors down and such, they'd only need a little bit of physical damage, right? Would a 0.1-0.5 ratio make more sense?

Another EDIT: I have anther question, Shadow. Saurian mages split their attack to 0.25 physical and 0.25 lightning, but their lightning bolt skill has DamageMultLightning of 1.0 and DamageMultPhysical of -10000. What's the purpose of these very low negative values I find sometimes? Won't this cancel out their physical damage?

Also, how is damage calculated? Monsters seem to deal damage higher than what I calculate they should at their level.

Last edited by Bluddy : 03-01-2011 at 04:06 AM.
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  #18  
Old 02-28-2011, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
For breaking doors down and such, they'd only need a little bit of physical damage, right? Would a 0.1-0.5 ratio make more sense?
Some monsters don't do melee. Would this apply to their spells, too?

Still a bug: Every pure direct-damage monster-mage can't target/hurt their own species within their faction, no matter how much they hate each other. If they could alternate between magic & melee this would not be the case, and it does not apply to area-of-effect spells (dark elf's ice storm is OK), only direct-damage spells (i.e. torva shaman's firebolt, naga's poison, skeleton archer bows). I should video this, it's pretty amusing.
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  #19  
Old 03-01-2011, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
They don't get a strength bonus? Do they use ClassMonsterGeneric? Because that uses ClassGenericBase, which has a 1.0 strength/damage conversion ratio. How is their health calculated then? How is critical hit calculated? Defense?

I thought they use ClassMonsterGeneric or ClassMonsterMage/Priest and then override some values with the values in BaseMonsters.gdb (which seem like only partial values). Do I have it wrong? I saw that you changed a value in ClassGenericBase between assets001.zip and assets003.zip so I thought those values must be used.

EDIT: I tested it and saw the damage multiplier doesn't affect things. I guess it was easier to individualize races by adjusting their damage directly. I'm still curious as to how critical hits are calculated for monsters.

For breaking doors down and such, they'd only need a little bit of physical damage, right? Would a 0.1-0.5 ratio make more sense?

Another EDIT: I have anther question, Shadow. Saurian mages split their attack to 0.25 physical and 0.25 lightning, but their lightning bolt skill has DamageMultLightning of 1.0 and DamageMultPhysical of -10000. What's the purpose of these very low negative values I find sometimes? Won't this cancel out their physical damage?

Also, how is damage calculated? Monsters seem to deal damage higher than what I calculate they should at their level.
Yes, most of them use ClassMonsterGeneric, but some of the values are ignored for monsters. Their damage comes from MinDamage/MaxDamage and MinDamagePerLevel/MaxDamagePerLevel in BaseMonsters.gdb and the multipliers for each difficulty level.

I believe their health does come from vitality like normal.

Yes, the DamageMultPhysical -10000 would essentially remove the physical damage. Basically for a Saurian mage the lightning bolts are pure lightning but if they actually hit you with their claws it would be half lightning/half physical damage.

It already takes some of the monsters a while to break down a door. Too much lower and they might be hacking on a door forever.
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  #20  
Old 03-01-2011, 11:18 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Yes, most of them use ClassMonsterGeneric, but some of the values are ignored for monsters. Their damage comes from MinDamage/MaxDamage and MinDamagePerLevel/MaxDamagePerLevel in BaseMonsters.gdb and the multipliers for each difficulty level.

I believe their health does come from vitality like normal.

Yes, the DamageMultPhysical -10000 would essentially remove the physical damage. Basically for a Saurian mage the lightning bolts are pure lightning but if they actually hit you with their claws it would be half lightning/half physical damage.

It already takes some of the monsters a while to break down a door. Too much lower and they might be hacking on a door forever.
That makes sense. If their physical component is nullified for a lightning attack, however, that leaves them with... 0.25 lightning damage per zap? How about 0.6/0.7 lightning, 0.3 physical, where the physical is only for claws. That would make them formidable but still weaker than regular attacks. The same logic applies to shamans and nagas.
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