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  #1  
Old 03-22-2011, 02:12 PM
derf derf is offline
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Default Bow and mage questions/suggestions

Do weaponmaster rage (mana gain on hit) adrenaline (faster attacks) and arms mastery (+attack and damage) work with bow?

Does bow do enough damage late game to even take advantage of being ranged? I'm assuming not having any non-linear crowd control, and the nature of cramped spaces in DC, means an archer is shooting enemies point blank anyway and is essentially a gimpy warrior.

Changing exploding arrow to %based fire damage, or making multishot hit 3 enemies might fix this. To not make archer OP maybe slow the attack time of bow, that would make sense to me anyway.

Reading about the game on here it looks like there are only a few build types/playstyles that can make it against the higher level enemies. I just wanted to know a few things about using the bow late game (before I invest the time it takes to get there) and if it's more feasible than say a mage which I gather is pretty useless thanks to the mage attacks not being % based like the melee ones.

Perhaps base mage attack spells on a % of quarterstaff damage, changing it so a quarterstaff is required to cast an offensive spell, or just making attack spells do a relatively lower % of weapon damage compared to warrior attacks.
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  #2  
Old 03-22-2011, 02:51 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derf View Post
Do weaponmaster rage (mana gain on hit) adrenaline (faster attacks) and arms mastery (+attack and damage) work with bow?
AFAIK yes.

[quote]Does bow do enough damage late game to even take advantage of being ranged? I'm assuming not having any non-linear crowd control, and the nature of cramped spaces in DC, means an archer is shooting enemies point blank anyway and is essentially a gimpy warrior.[quote]

From testing with 2 characters, archers can do fine in the late game. Plus, many dungeon types aren't cramped at all. Bows are a little weaker than melee weapons because they have the advantage of being ranged. They've still got plenty of power though. Also, you could always have a strong melee weapon as a backup.

Quote:
Reading about the game on here it looks like there are only a few build types/playstyles that can make it against the higher level enemies. I just wanted to know a few things about using the bow late game (before I invest the time it takes to get there) and if it's more feasible than say a mage which I gather is pretty useless thanks to the mage attacks not being % based like the melee ones.
A mage is not useless, especially after the last patch. He still requires a particular strategy though: making use of masteries.

Quote:
Perhaps base mage attack spells on a % of quarterstaff damage, changing it so a quarterstaff is required to cast an offensive spell, or just making attack spells do a relatively lower % of weapon damage compared to warrior attacks.
I was thinking of having magic ratings for weapons that are completely separate from regular damage ratings, and which would work similarly to what you're saying. Staves would have the highest magic rating. However, that's already practically a different game. The system is not bad as it is, it just still needs some tweaking. Mages are already very playable -- I'd just like to see them not depend on masteries as much.
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  #3  
Old 03-22-2011, 06:01 PM
Brysos Brysos is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derf View Post
and if it's more feasible than say a mage which I gather is pretty useless thanks to the mage attacks not being % based like the melee ones.


I have a mid 70s wizard and an almost 50 HC wizard. One of the most important things to find is -cast time items (gloves and staff). These items will dramatically increase your power level. Wizards can be fragile however, I have had several very close calls with my HC wizard but it is doable.

My key skills are shatter and cold mastery, for survival I have teleport and fire maelstrom. Lately I have been dumping points into Evasion. Fire Maelstrom is critical as even a single level of it works as a massive AE root, I can't take more than a few hits from a champion at my level and if they get a stun off on you it can get ugly quick. The downside of Fire Maelstrom is it often causes cave ins, so typically I will cast it and run just outside of its effect. Once you get teleport maxxed you can afford to use it more for those cave-in cases.

I haven't met any 1 shot bosses yet with my HC wizard, but my normal wizard has met a few that I am dreading meeting again. Super fast, one shot re generators are tough.
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  #4  
Old 03-22-2011, 06:19 PM
derf derf is offline
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Took me a sec to figure out what HC wizard was, hardcore. Now that I know it's doable I will try it, thanks brysos

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
A mage is not useless, especially after the last patch. He still requires a particular strategy though: making use of masteries.
Ok cool, could you answer a couple more questions before I change to mage? I just don't want to make a character who is only good enough for early on.

Is mana gain significant? Will I be able to spam level 10 fireball or frost nova if I hybrid with necro for mana gain on kill?

Does magic crit trigger mana gain with assassination/elation or is it just for melee/bow crits?

How important are dex and vit? Can I just ignore them and spend my points on int?

Do enemies have fire/cold resistance so high I should consider hybrid with warlock just for curse of vulnerability?

Last edited by derf : 03-22-2011 at 06:28 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-23-2011, 02:45 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brysos View Post
I have a mid 70s wizard and an almost 50 HC wizard. One of the most important things to find is -cast time items (gloves and staff). These items will dramatically increase your power level. Wizards can be fragile however, I have had several very close calls with my HC wizard but it is doable.
Brysos, would you be able zip up and post your character files for your level 70 wizard? I could really really use it for testing my balance mod -- I just don't know how viable my adjusted skills are at high levels. If you'd prefer not to post it publicly, just say so and I could PM you my email address.

An HC character is not much use for me since testing leads to many character deaths
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  #6  
Old 03-23-2011, 03:11 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derf View Post
Took me a sec to figure out what HC wizard was, hardcore. Now that I know it's doable I will try it, thanks brysos

Ok cool, could you answer a couple more questions before I change to mage? I just don't want to make a character who is only good enough for early on.

Is mana gain significant? Will I be able to spam level 10 fireball or frost nova if I hybrid with necro for mana gain on kill?
Mana gain is not significant for any class. It's just not a factor. Plus, all mana regen slows down to a crawl when you're in combat. But that doesn't really matter either since mana costs currently rise very slowly, so you should be able to spam spells even with a half-mage (at least according to my calculations -- other people might be able to give you better advice from experience).

Just to give you an idea: a 10th level fireball will cost you only 22 mana. As a half mage, by level 20 you'll already have 210 mana, so you'll be able to spam around 10 level 10 fireballs. By level 30 you'll have around 300 mana, so you'll be able to spam 15 of them. Plus, since fireballs will kill off most of the critters, you won't be in combat for long and your mana will therefore go back to filling up quickly. The only limiting factor is the number of skill points you have to spend early on, and you have to make sure to invest in fire mastery.

Quote:
Does magic crit trigger mana gain with assassination/elation or is it just for melee/bow crits?
I think it's only for hitting crits, but as I said, it's not a real factor.

Quote:
How important are dex and vit? Can I just ignore them and spend my points on int?
DEX is sadly not worthwhile for a full mage unless you want to be able to hit the monsters as well -- the fire mage has the flame blade option which is mildly powerful. VIT is essential for survival. STR is slightly useful because it can give you magic crushing blows. As a mage though, you'll probably max out your INT fairly early.

Quote:
Do enemies have fire/cold resistance so high I should consider hybrid with warlock just for curse of vulnerability?
I don't think it's necessary. Some unique enemies have high resistance, and fire elementals would be difficult, but in general monsters have low resistances.
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  #7  
Old 03-23-2011, 04:13 AM
Chumpy Chumpy is offline
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Wait, strength affects magic crushing blows?
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  #8  
Old 03-23-2011, 04:18 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Chumpy View Post
Wait, strength affects magic crushing blows?
Though I haven't seen it specifically said anywhere (it's only in the code), I believe it does. Crits and magical crits stem from the same source (INT), and I think crushing blows and magical crushing blows also come from the same source (STR). BTW this is a good thing -- you want the pure mage to want to invest in stats other than INT and VIT. There are no magical deep wounds, which is why DEX is of little use to the mage. I wish there was something to be gained from DEX.

As a side point, I have no idea where stunning blows come from.
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  #9  
Old 03-23-2011, 04:42 AM
Manumitted Manumitted is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
Though I haven't seen it specifically said anywhere (it's only in the code), I believe it does. Crits and magical crits stem from the same source (INT), and I think crushing blows and magical crushing blows also come from the same source (STR). BTW this is a good thing -- you want the pure mage to want to invest in stats other than INT and VIT. There are no magical deep wounds, which is why DEX is of little use to the mage. I wish there was something to be gained from DEX.

As a side point, I have no idea where stunning blows come from.
I'm pretty sure that's a mistake. Unless I've missed something in the changelog, nothing but item enchants seems to affect Magic Crushing Blow. Why should your physical strength help you cast a max-damage magic spell, anyway? Not making Magic Crush easy is consistent with holding down spell damage to make up for its ranged, never-miss nature.

Stun chance only comes from item enchants (constant percent or proc) or a few skills/spells that boost melee Stun, auto-stun the target, or have a chance unrelated to melee Stun of stunning the target.
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  #10  
Old 03-23-2011, 04:45 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Manumitted View Post
I'm pretty sure that's a mistake. Unless I've missed something in the changelog, nothing but item enchants seems to affect Magic Crushing Blow. Why should your physical strength help you cast a max-damage magic spell, anyway? Not making Magic Crush easy is consistent with holding down spell damage to make up for its ranged, never-miss nature.

Stun chance only comes from item enchants (constant percent or proc) or a few skills/spells that boost melee Stun, auto-stun the target, or have a chance unrelated to melee Stun of stunning the target.
Ah ok. Well if that's the case then I stand corrected.
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