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  #1  
Old 10-31-2015, 12:41 PM
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Shadow Shadow is offline
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Default Skills pass

Over the next several patches I plan on updating the skills a little (or maybe a lot). So I would like to get everyone's current opinion on some things.

1) What are your favorite skills that you would like to stay as is?
2) What skills do you like, but feel are too weak?
3) What skills do you not like at all and feel could/should be replaced?
4) What new skills would you like to see?
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  #2  
Old 11-01-2015, 02:13 AM
Oblivion Oblivion is offline
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Since I've been playing the rogue quite extensively, I think I'll add a bunch of input in for that class.

1)Right now I can't really pick a favorite skill, as all of the rogue's damaging abilities seems so similar just with different critical rates, which have kind of blurred at my current level (55.)

2)Insidious Poison, the damage it deals is so very low(At rank 5 its 2.8 dps for 10 seconds which is 28 damage) and it only applies on hits with skills so using a faster weapon and use left click attacks aren't even a viable strategy.

Viper Venom, same as above really, its damage isn't too great.

Charged Strike, it's very useful early on, but the damage scaling is pretty awful and nothing else about the abilities scales besides the duration, making it a one point wonder.

Shuriken, seems slightly promising, it just lacks quite a bit especially with how you can no longer move while throwing it (like in Din's Curse.) The damage scaling isn't too great either. I think this ability should have a cooldown and do a bit more damage and maybe slow the target.

Gouge, with the introduction of Cripple, it seems pointless to really invest into this skill. The flat values really fall off hard when you consider defense and attack values of 2000. The minor distraction is nice setup for other skills, but it needs some else going for it.

Dodge, the amount of defense and dodge you get per rank (25) is just way too low for the point investment. It does virtually nothing at my current level.

Feint, its effects replace Gouge and vice versa. Other than that, its pretty nice except the fact critical hit values get so high and its pretty much just a Major Distraction.

Jab, this skill just seems a bit too weak. Its concept is nice but I feel with how much damage you do later you can't counteract the hate you generate.

Caltrops, feels like its lacking something. It would be nice on a ranged character, but on the rogue you really have to be in the fight and the movement reduction doesn't help much unless you have to run.

Disarm Trap and Lock Pick, these abilities have such a weird scaling that if you do not put in tons of levels, they become useless at higher levels. They need a less flat scale in order to remain relevant.

Concentration: The cooldown on all of these are waaay too long. Concentration: Speed doesn't appear to increase use time of abilities (unless I just don't notice it), so it ends up being fairly useless in comparison to how useful it is to increase your defense a large amount using Concentration: Blur. Concentration: Poison should speak for itself, as noted about the other poison abilities.


3)Sleight of Hand is it really, none of the other skills really pop up as useless, they are just different ways of playing the rogue.


4) Dual Wielding in the Assassin tree would be neat. Maybe some sort of way to have skills do extra damage due to dual-wielding (to simulate hitting with both weapons), and attacking with basic attacks alternate between each. Would be expensive talent point wise, starting at 10.

Sword Mastery in the Assassin tree to rival that of Dagger Mastery, probably more focused around deep wounds.

Maybe a parry passive to mirror the dodge passive? it seems very roguey to me and would be another defensive skill to throw in.

Some sort of acrobatic leap ability for the Thief tree that would let you tumble short distances. Would give you increased dodge for the duration of the tumble and maybe it would give increased escape notice.

If I think of anything else I'll add it in. Overall the Rogue feels like it is in an okayish state. I think one of the main issues is that it lacks AoE compared to the other melee classes, and perhaps that's something else that should be looked at. Death Blow and Charged Strike being the only sources, but they don't do all that much damage to really matter. It wouldn't feel right giving them a really good skill, but maybe something a little more.

In addition to that, as I stated earlier, the lack of variety of abilities that do damage is another thing. At lower level they are very different but they eventually just blur together way too much.
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  #3  
Old 11-01-2015, 02:07 PM
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Skills like Fireball only gain power with a base number rather than a multiplier, giving them a shelf life. If you don't keep constantly putting into them, they become useless.

I feel skills like Insidious Poison and Accuracy should work on all attacks and not just skills, otherwise they aren't that useful unless the player is a skill spammer.

That said, both of these things could easily be modded in, so if you don't decide to do those changes or if others would prefer different changes then that's perfectly fine with me.

Last edited by DanSota : 11-01-2015 at 02:13 PM.
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  #4  
Old 11-01-2015, 02:15 PM
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I agree that magic needs a rework to be viable.

Bluddy's balance mod for Dins curse did a lot of good work with skills and made a lot of them more interesting to use and more powerful. Maybe Shadow could take a look at the guts of that mod.

Also, to make this thread more organized, maybe a couple of people would be willing to test and focus on specific classes. I.e. play a specific class up to level 30 or 40 and give sustained feedback on it.
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  #5  
Old 11-01-2015, 02:29 PM
Oblivion Oblivion is offline
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Oh another thing of note. I would really like the synergies thing from Diablo 2 and Torchlight to be maybe included somehow. It gave purpose in leveling other skills because they would effect others in various different ways.

Like levels in Lethal Blow for instance could increase critical damage of Death Blow as an example.
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  #6  
Old 11-01-2015, 03:05 PM
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Tuidjy Tuidjy is offline
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Buddy's balance mod gave a very challenging game a casual mode. This may have been A VERY GOOD thing, but still, it completely removed the need of looking for synergies and being careful. I tried it, and then gave it up right after level 50 for being too easy. But then again, I never made it long after level 75 in Din's Curse. I always play hardcore.

I have no problem whatsoever in Zombasite dealing damage, at least up to level 50ish, which is far I have gotten. My defenses becomes inadequate much earlier, though, despite my splitting my points into defense and offense at a two to one ratio.

I have no real suggestions for improvement, though, except to suggest difficulty modes, which change the skill and stat points per level.
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Last edited by Tuidjy : 11-01-2015 at 03:08 PM.
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  #7  
Old 11-01-2015, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanSota View Post
Skills like Fireball only gain power with a base number rather than a multiplier, giving them a shelf life. If you don't keep constantly putting into them, they become useless.
Doesn't the new damage bonuses on items help with this?
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2015, 06:09 PM
Throwback Throwback is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oblivion View Post
2)Insidious Poison, the damage it deals is so very low(At rank 5 its 2.8 dps for 10 seconds which is 28 damage) and it only applies on hits with skills so using a faster weapon and use left click attacks aren't even a viable strategy.

Viper Venom, same as above really, its damage isn't too great.
I don't know anything about rogue or how these skills scale, but as a general rule it is better to have 2 stacking skills than just one skill, because it is considerably cheaper to invest in them for the same or similar reward.

edit: 28 damage at rank 5 seems horribly low even for what iirc is a free mana passive. However, it has to be balanced against the saving in intelligence stat points which can then be put into dex and what flow-on that has to other skills. A very interesting skill to balance!

Last edited by Throwback : 11-01-2015 at 08:04 PM.
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2015, 07:43 PM
norari1977 norari1977 is offline
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i like the defender's new skill Quake Strike. it won't be highest damage skill but i'm glad Defender finally got a skill he can do AOE damage.i don't have much complain about current skills on every classes. it is looks similar with Din's curse but it is exactly improved. it has a lot of possibility to create interesting character. the difference between Zombasite and previous Soldak games will be now we could have more member in the party and it made a lot of reason to make a support type character. so it must be good to add little more group buffing type skills on some class.it is little annoying i have to cast one buff to one member then i have to recast for another member or myself. i think it is useful if shaman's elemental protection skill can automatically buffing every party member at the same time.

Last edited by norari1977 : 11-01-2015 at 08:09 PM.
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2015, 08:21 PM
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DanSota DanSota is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow View Post
Doesn't the new damage bonuses on items help with this?
I haven't had the chance to find out, so it might. I'll look into it when I have the time to again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Castruccio View Post
Also, to make this thread more organized, maybe a couple of people would be willing to test and focus on specific classes. I.e. play a specific class up to level 30 or 40 and give sustained feedback on it.
I can give the Ranger a go. I usually only play hybrids, so pulling through the game with a default class could be interesting.

Last edited by DanSota : 11-01-2015 at 08:53 PM.
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