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Old 03-03-2008, 02:25 AM
Bagheera Bagheera is offline
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 7

Originally Posted by Delve View Post
The 'traditional' form of level gain, for my definition at least, is the classic D&D 'gain a level and suddenly you are god and need to find a bigger challenge'. In short, you grind along at approximately the same level of strength until suddenly, POOF, everything becomes impossible to miss, nothing can hit you, and your spells all cause instant death (or might as well).
this defines pretty much every rpg in existence, action, online, PnP, or otherwise. DoP included, only slowed down to such a snails pace that you dont notice it. (as with most mmorpg formats to make grinding 'fun')

DoP (among many others) manages to avoid this in that each level is pretty short and is a minor bonus that adds up over time.
no, it doesnt avoid this. just because you are looking in the wrong direction doesnt mean that the rabid dog isnt still there. and just because it takes ten times as long to "be an almighty god of sewer rats" doesnt mean that the same levelling scheme isnt present. there's just ten times as much accounting to do.

There are also systems that involve leveling a particular skill based on use, where 'character level' is more a function of overall stats rather than a driver of the stats. Those can also work well. My view of 'traditional level gains' may be rather skewed by my game history, of course.
and what game history is that where you cant differentiate between skills and statistics ? the terminology is pretty has been pretty standard in those words since before personal computers.

Yes? The stats are also the driver for how your character functions.
which has absolutely no bearing on the character class's skills or this thread.

No, this isn't defined at character creation. That's actually beneficial, you can to some extent change course early on if you find that what you're doing isn't working.
i'm starting to doubt you've ever played an RPG if you think choosing something as simple as a race, background, or profession is the endall/beall of character design and development. its not about "being locked in". its about differentiating YOUR character from the 50 OTHER characters created of the same class, allowing you to play YOUR character the way YOU like to play... not the way the designers THINK everyone wants, or should, play.

Starting new characters doesn't have to be fun

sure, it doesnt HAVE to be fun... i mean, it IS a game... it doesnt HAVE to be fun... i could go into a restaurant and order food... and it doesnt HAVE to be edible... but that doesnt make it good... it'd make it a pretty lousy restaurant. and a game that isnt fun to play... is a pretty lousy game.

Assigning stats is...
entirely irrelevant to a thread discussing skills.

Also, I suspect a large proportion of people would be put off by the 10 minute character creation process with all the widgets and numbers that Fallout uses.
10 minutes ? what did you DO while creating a character ? watch the first 2 seasons of 24 ?

how long did it take you to select a class in DoP ? must've been at least 5 or 6 if its going to take you 10 to select a class AND a race.

Large up front investments of time and energy before you even get to play the game isn't the way a lot of people think.
so far it doesnt seem like you speak from experience. the character creation in fallout isnt at all as you describe. in fact, they provide "click and play" characters premade just for those lazy guys like you that fall asleep trying to find the enter key.

DoP is not a MMORPG. I don't believe it even wants to be. It's a synthesis of Diablo and Civilization, not Everquest and WoW.
i never said it was like EQ. but if you dont see the comparison between WoW and DoP, you havent played either one of them.

and as far as diablo, with one trivial exception, every similarity between D2 and DoP is simply because DoP is in the same genre as WoW, and WoW also shares those same similarities with D2.

DoP is no more a MMORPG then .hack is, but that doesnt mean its not trying to imitate one.
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:01 AM
Delve Delve is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 606

I probably shouldn't bother responding, but I've never claimed to be the best judge of when to leave a discussion. You seem to have missed the point of every statement I made, and added ad hominem arguments to the discussion as well, which I find counterproductive.
//TODO: Insert witty one-liner here.
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Old 03-04-2008, 05:29 AM
kaeruu kaeruu is offline
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 57

Originally Posted by Bagheera View Post

sure, it doesnt HAVE to be fun... i mean, it IS a game... it doesnt HAVE to be fun... i could go into a restaurant and order food... and it doesnt HAVE to be edible... but that doesnt make it good... it'd make it a pretty lousy restaurant. and a game that isnt fun to play... is a pretty lousy game.
This won the award for me. Award for the most stupidly answered. Delve simply meant the character selection isn't supposedly enjoyable, that doesn't mean the whole game in itself has to be un-enjoyable as well. You like analogies? Well here's one: Getting wounded while playing basketball isn't fun, but the whole game in itself is. Now if you like playing basketball, and like getting wounded while playing it as well, then something is wrong with you. Get it?

Same goes for all of your analogies and ad hominems. I am trying to make this as un-rude as possible as well, but really, if all you can do is be rude to somebody else (or appear rude as a result of ignorance), please do us a favor and leave the forums. We're here for constructive discussions. Thank you and have a good day.

Last edited by kaeruu : 03-04-2008 at 05:32 AM.
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