Archer Classes...

[m0stly_harmless]

I'm going to start a seperate thread to HOPEFULLY get some of this archer stuff addressed. I really needs to be...

The Archer:

- Multiple arrow shot. The angle that (from left to right, aiming up) that the arrows come out is not equal. The first and second arrows seem ok (looks like a 330 Degree, 0 Degree), that third one almost comes out at a 90 degree angle to the second (middle) one <- this one needs to be made to be 30 Degree to make it a "coned" spread. This makes for a very awkward way to clear a room, not to mention that it wastes a shot in 90% of the circumstances.

- The cone spread should be made a little narrower. Perhaps a 30 to 35 Degree spread from center on both sides, because as it stands, it's a pretty useless skill in any location other than a WIDE room. In those twisty, narrow dungeons, it's just a waste of points and mana.

**** We still need to improve the BOW drops (and DPS for said bow in relation to their requirements.).


*******************

EDIT: Seems that depending on the aiming angle of the character, the angle of the outside shot does a 90 degree thing - seems that either of the outside shots take their turn doing the 90 degree thing. Programming miscalculation?

[m0stly_harmless]

I'm also including a few snaps of proof that the requirements vs. DSP/Level of the BOWS needs to be nerfed - alot - when compared to any other weapon (I've included a sword I've had to equip as the current level bows all suck monkey balls).

Besides, there is no logical way to equip any of these even with a strength/dex potion (if you can even find one with enough stats that your level can use) as you can only use ONE of those potions at a time. Finding armour that bumps stats up is also redundant as the bonuses they give are minimal when compared to the bow's requirements.

Really, when one thinks of it, it's like outfitting a level 45 Weaponmaster with a level 12/20DPS sword - completely rediculous - and that's why the Archer class is no fun to play with.

Here's my current character stats and the bow I currently have (found) and some bows I've picked up.

There is NO POSSIBLE way I'll ever equip those anytime soon, and when I can, their DPS will be useless anyways...









***** Continued... ******

[m0stly_harmless]

I've had to equip my ARCHER with a freggin sword so I could mow down baddies. Clearly, what's the point of even having a bow class or archer character if this is what needs to be done to get ahead in the game?



This is the only bow I've found that I can use at the moment... Like I mentioned, what the point when the sword will slay quicker and better?




AND... If none of the above sways anyone, take a look at THIS bow we (Jorlen & I) found while questing...

Can someone please give me a valid, plausible reason for THOSE requirements?



Seriously. This needs to be looked at.

/rant

Thanks.

[benloran]

I haven't played an archer at all, but looking at your screenshots in your first post about multishot, it almost looks as if there should be 4 shots and one of them is missing. Have you tested to see if a monster that appears to be in the gap between the shots might still be taking damage? Could be a drawing error, perhaps?

[m0stly_harmless]

Originally Posted by benloran

Have you tested to see if a monster that appears to be in the gap between the shots might still be taking damage? Could be a drawing error, perhaps?

It's a 3 shot, multishot. If the "bullet" doesn't hit anything, no damage is dealt. It's not the drawing that is screwed up, it's the tragectory.

[Crisses]

My son gave me a bow many levels ago that I'm still using at level 49. I think I've been using it since the 20s. He found it during multiplayer, also. With all my bonuses I get 105 DPS. I have STR 89, Dex 183. It requires 48/96.

It's starting to "fail" -- I have not found a bow ANYTHING like it for over 15 levels, including multiplayer play. Heck, I'd take your cursed bow at this point.... I need an upgrade very seriously. Bow weaponsmiths are basically useless regardless of dungeon level -- it's so rare to find a good bow, not even talking about a great bow. This was a great bow when I was level 20-something, now it's an OK bow at level 49. It will be obsoleted any moment.

Screenshot of bow stats....

[Manumitted]

My first question would be what made you spend 2.5 levels of stat points by level 9 on Spirit? Those 12 points should have gone into DEX for an archer.

I'm glad I'm not playing whatever patch (or its successors) increased the already excessive DEX requirement for a bow from 1.5X STR requirement to 2X STR. That's ridiculous. 1.3X would be plenty. Real bows take nontrivial strength to pull, after all.

Most bows are not viable without a large +Damage%, +Max Damage%, or +Max Damage enchantment. The unique bows are useful for their considerably lower stat requirements. Look for Blood Let, Hell Fury, or Death Knell unique bows in the levels to come.

I've had my best results with bows putting them in the hands of a pure Ranger with high-level Stalker spell active. Doubling DPS on top of the Bow Mastery bonus makes them fairly effective. This approach does sacrifice the bow's ranged combat ability.

[alstein]

Originally Posted by Manumitted

My first question would be what made you spend 2.5 levels of stat points by level 9 on Spirit? Those 12 points should have gone into DEX for an archer.

I'm glad I'm not playing whatever patch (or its successors) increased the already excessive DEX requirement for a bow from 1.5X STR requirement to 2X STR. That's ridiculous. 1.3X would be plenty. Real bows take nontrivial strength to pull, after all.

Most bows are not viable without a large +Damage%, +Max Damage%, or +Max Damage enchantment. The unique bows are useful for their considerably lower stat requirements. Look for Blood Let, Hell Fury, or Death Knell unique bows in the levels to come.

I've had my best results with bows putting them in the hands of a pure Ranger with high-level Stalker spell active. Doubling DPS on top of the Bow Mastery bonus makes them fairly effective. This approach does sacrifice the bow's ranged combat ability.

The sub was Paladin. Half those points should have gone to STR (Stunning Blow/Crushing Blow for Pallies is good). Pally's a good compliment to Archer- stunning blow/crushing blow/regen/chainmail all have use.

Archer requirements for bows are too high, but not as bad as dagger/mage requirements (still too high IMO, but not as bad)

Multishot should "home" I think, though if it does it should be a 6pt skill.

The Archer speedup skill should probably be passive like it is in Magitek's mod, but not as good.

Bow Mastery should add some armor piercing also.

[Crisses]

I think one problem is the number of "Classes" of item in the game for archers. i.e. Maces come in clubs & 2 handed varieties. Swords come in all lengths and sizes. And warrior classes can arm whatever highest DPS item comes across their plate with good extra bonuses like armor pierce or extra crit chance.

In my own item-drop experience, if a warrior started the game and said "I'm only going to use 2 handed swords" they'd have a similar problem as the archers. Maybe we need other items i.e. crossbows, arbalests, etc. that are in addition to bows that use the same animation but allow the item generation system a little more "ranged archer-class weapon fodder".

So Crossbows could require more STR than DEX, do more Damage, lower firing rate (except the "Repeating" mod that speeds the crossbows up). Composite Bows require less STR to pull, and fire faster. Japanese Yumi....?

This would give the item generation engine more things to happen across in random generation....some additional unique bows, too.

[Manumitted]

Originally Posted by Crisses

I think one problem is the number of "Classes" of item in the game for archers. i.e. Maces come in clubs & 2 handed varieties. Swords come in all lengths and sizes. And warrior classes can arm whatever highest DPS item comes across their plate with good extra bonuses like armor pierce or extra crit chance.

That's probably part of it. Having what seems like 2/3 of the weapons in the game theoretically usable by a warrior almost guarantees that he'll be able to find something with nice DPS/enchants on it. Mages have the luxury of ignoring DPS on their weapons and just waiting for Cast Time or +Crit enchants. Even thieves get plenty of nice daggers and 1h swords to play with. This must be part of the reason that weaponsmiths illogically seem to have 1/3 of their inventory devoted to bows, when 90% or some similar supermajority of characters can't use them. It's a brute-force attempt to get a halfway useful bow to spawn, but it doesn't work very often.

Actually, now that I think about it, weaponsmiths in general aren't that useful. Most of their non-unique stuff has infeasible DPS, and weapons cost too much and have too high stat requirements to buy them for their enchants for part-time use as magic find, money find, or trap disarm gear. Armor is often useful for reasons other than its AC, making the vast expanse of suboptimal armor pieces more desirable.