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  #11  
Old 06-19-2009, 10:09 AM
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Ooh, so this will be a bit like DoP, in that I'll be able to finish "a game", and get some sense of closure, but then continue with that character in my next game? That sounds terrific.
Yep, that's the idea. It's a way to break the game into smaller chunks so you don't have to remember as much when you are away and also so you feel satisfaction when you "win" an adventure. I can also do more dynamic stuff with real consequences since it won't screw up the entire world. Oh, and yes your character will carry over just like DoP.

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I agree with GeorgiaBoy that, STILL, no game has done a better job of offering up tantalizing loot than Diablo II. And, yep, Titan Quest does have a terrific skill system. One of the coolest things about it is the ability to dual-class, which really opens up the opportunities for interesting builds.
I have played a lot of Diablo 2. I probably should go back and play a bit more Titan Quest though.
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  #12  
Old 06-19-2009, 10:25 AM
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Delilah Rehm Delilah Rehm is offline
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I think the multiple town idea works better for Depths II than the dungeon crawl, although we are improving from Depths I which only has one town ever. Each game starting in a different town with many various problems to solve is going to be fun. Unless there were underground towns, I don't know how to work multiple towns in one game???

It will be like Depths I where you continue on with your character after winning a world. Another different thing will be the quest line. Instead of one straight line with random stuff thrown in, there'll be a grab bag of quest lines. Each game will get one main line plus some of the random stuff.

I can't tell you how excited I am for this new game. Steven talks about his ideas all the time and they are AWESOME. If I could be playing the game right now, I would! You are going to have more influence on the world than I've ever seen in any other game. Depths barely touched the surface of what the dungeon crawl is going to do.

I'm wracking my brain for a name for this game. There isn't one big bad guy, there isn't one main quest line, there isn't one town or starting scenario. Ahhhhhg! What to do!
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  #13  
Old 06-19-2009, 08:02 PM
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Coreyh2 Coreyh2 is offline
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I've played many dungeon crawls. The things I liked most about Depths of Peril were the unique faction elements that made it seem more dynamic. I'd like the combat to be more complex and faster paced. I'd like the combat to have more physics with magic and blows that have force to them. More story in the combat areas like dialog, scripted events, and music cues for bosses. If you are still making randomly generated areas have some random odd areas in them. Like caves and vaults in Angband.
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  #14  
Old 06-22-2009, 10:09 AM
SevenMass SevenMass is offline
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OK, I may have a novelty idea

How about indirect control mechanisms?

As an example, take a look at this game called Gish. It has 4 control functions: sticky, glide, heavy (also expands) and move. But by combining these simple controls, you can do more. Sticky can help you move across a ceiling, but you can also stick objects to yourself, by combining it with the move and heavy function, you can throw objects, and with some skill, control very precisely with what force and under what angle the object is thrown.

A direct "throw" function wouldn't be able to have such level of control, at least not without a very complex control scheme, with separate controls for the angle and force.

Just play the demo to see what I mean, or watch a YouTube playthrough video about the game instead.



Maybe in your new game, you can give the character the functions:
walk-movement, charge, jump, swing, hold, let go.

The swing control can swing a sword, but also throw objects (including that sword, regardless of whether that is a wise thing to do with your sword)
The swing animation takes a certain amount of time, by pressing the "let go" function at the right time, the player can control the force an object is throw. Combine it with walk, and the object is throw with even more force, combine it with a short charge, and even more.

Hold, move and let go, without swinging will just move object. (that don't fit into your backpack) Even heavier objects can be dragged or pushed this way.

Walk into a door, and it will just open, unless it is locked, charge into a door, and you can attempt to break it. Drink a speed elixir, then charge, and you break with more force (useful for higher quality doors) A player can decide to either look for the key somewhere in the dungeon, or beak in, and sometimes even using up a speed elixir to do so.

Combine jump with swing, and your character will hit the enemy with more force in one blow. Combine charge, jump, and swing, and, well, you get the idea. The amount of time you hold charge, and jump determine the exact force of the blow.

Combine it with an environment where many objects are lose (destroyable)... Charge into a lose staple, and the staple will tumble, maybe even into an enemy.

Using indirect controls, the player gains a great amount of freedom, and very precise controls with a simple control scheme.

It also puts playing skill into the equation, instead of just helping the player with the most uber items.


Indirect control isn't a new invention (after all, Gish has it) but I know no Action RPG game that uses it, so it would certainly set the game apart from the already existing ones. And gives people more reason to play it instead of just playing DiabloII.
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Last edited by SevenMass : 06-22-2009 at 10:21 AM.
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  #15  
Old 06-22-2009, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Coreyh2 View Post
I've played many dungeon crawls. The things I liked most about Depths of Peril were the unique faction elements that made it seem more dynamic. I'd like the combat to be more complex and faster paced. I'd like the combat to have more physics with magic and blows that have force to them. More story in the combat areas like dialog, scripted events, and music cues for bosses. If you are still making randomly generated areas have some random odd areas in them. Like caves and vaults in Angband.
I'm not sure about more complex (complex has a lot of meanings, some good and some bad), but I think we will have more options thanks to more interaction between the environment and different systems.

I am thinking of adding some more physics type things. Probably not a real physics system, but that you can effect more of the world than you could in past games.

I'm seriously considering things like vaults and some other similar ideas. I think they will end up in the game, it's just a matter of will they show up directly in the map or will they be like secret areas in DoP and are separate.

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Originally Posted by SevenMass View Post
OK, I may have a novelty idea

How about indirect control mechanisms?
I have played Gish before. Gish + an action RPG would be an intersting game. I don't think it will fit with what I'm trying to do in this game, it would be cool though. It might work really well on the Wii or Microsoft's upcoming Natal stuff.

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Originally Posted by SevenMass View Post
Walk into a door, and it will just open, unless it is locked, charge into a door, and you can attempt to break it. Drink a speed elixir, then charge, and you break with more force (useful for higher quality doors) A player can decide to either look for the key somewhere in the dungeon, or beak in, and sometimes even using up a speed elixir to do so.
I'm actually planning on some of this. If you find a locked door and have no key, do you search for a key or bash down the door?
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  #16  
Old 06-23-2009, 06:44 PM
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FloodSpectre FloodSpectre is offline
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First off, I love it when devs look to the community that supports them for their ideas. Thanks for giving us a chance at some input!

I definitely feel the need to echo others in this thread in relation to Titan Quest's skill system. It's easily my favorite system thus far, with the possibility for multiple character builds in each mastery, and even more when mixing them together. I'm certainly not advising you copy it, but I do believe some time trying it out and experimenting with builds in that game might give you some ideas for yours.

Unique items. I know they're normally in these sorts of games but I feel they ought to be more... well, unique. Angband has some of my favorite uniques. They'll usually be better than other items of their type in the typical ways, but then have effects like double or triple damage against certain enemy types, the ability to cast spells with a cooldown, special immunities not normally granted by any other items and fancy abilities like being able to see enemies through walls. Oftentimes they'll also have minor downsides, which i feel really helps balance them out. "I like this bonus regeneration, but do I want enemies to notice me half a screen sooner than usual?"

Another source of fantastic item design is King's Bounty. Artifacts have Keepers the player needs to defeat to improve the item to its next level. This gives some incentive to pick a favorite artifact and lug it with you throughout the game, eventually upgrading it when you feel you're strong enough to take on its Keepers. Another way of improving certain items is to perform actions the item likes. An Elven bow might be improved by having elves in your party, and by killing orcs. A dwarven axe, on the other hand, might become weaker because you've just used it to kill some dwarves.

Hm. Seems I've rambled on with what other games have done already... well, anyways, those are some item related elements in other RPGs I've truly admired recently. Maybe they can offer you some inspiration as well.
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  #17  
Old 06-23-2009, 10:36 PM
sleel sleel is offline
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I would like to see a really robust character creation and advancement system- stats are good. If you are afraid of scaring off casual gamers with a "stat-heavy" game, then just make a "simple" and "advanced" tab to accommodate both types of player.
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  #18  
Old 06-24-2009, 04:49 AM
kenhwcan kenhwcan is offline
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Bought Depth of Peril ,the time quest are what I dislike. I like exploring maps and taking my time and not having to worry that I missed getting a shot at the second companion or missing a quest. While I may not be your perfect target market at least I bought the game.
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  #19  
Old 06-24-2009, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by FloodSpectre View Post
I definitely feel the need to echo others in this thread in relation to Titan Quest's skill system. It's easily my favorite system thus far, with the possibility for multiple character builds in each mastery, and even more when mixing them together. I'm certainly not advising you copy it, but I do believe some time trying it out and experimenting with builds in that game might give you some ideas for yours.
I'm actually thinking about something along these lines. Any more people that like Titan Quests hybrid class system? Anyone not like it?

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Originally Posted by FloodSpectre View Post
Unique items. I know they're normally in these sorts of games but I feel they ought to be more... well, unique. Angband has some of my favorite uniques. They'll usually be better than other items of their type in the typical ways, but then have effects like double or triple damage against certain enemy types, the ability to cast spells with a cooldown, special immunities not normally granted by any other items and fancy abilities like being able to see enemies through walls. Oftentimes they'll also have minor downsides, which i feel really helps balance them out. "I like this bonus regeneration, but do I want enemies to notice me half a screen sooner than usual?"
Cool ideas, I'm not sure what all we are going to add to the item system yet. I'm going to start with what DoP had and add from there.

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Originally Posted by FloodSpectre View Post
Another source of fantastic item design is King's Bounty. Artifacts have Keepers the player needs to defeat to improve the item to its next level. This gives some incentive to pick a favorite artifact and lug it with you throughout the game, eventually upgrading it when you feel you're strong enough to take on its Keepers. Another way of improving certain items is to perform actions the item likes. An Elven bow might be improved by having elves in your party, and by killing orcs. A dwarven axe, on the other hand, might become weaker because you've just used it to kill some dwarves.
Sounds cool. I've always been interested in some kind of system where some items could gain experience and level some how.
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  #20  
Old 06-24-2009, 02:25 PM
The Roshambo Warrior The Roshambo Warrior is offline
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Usually my most desired feature to be included into a dungeon crawler would be: lore, lore, and tons of discovered lore. It could just be a bit here and there picked up as you go through the areas, but it would add quite a bit. The little Diablo 2 had offered some detail, but I think others could do far better. Titan Quest had some, but it seemed to be isolated mostly in cities. Hack and slash dungeon crawlers seem to get a little stale after playing the dozenth or so one. I always feel I gotta have some reason to want to poke around besides loot and constantly kicking butt.

As for the hybrid class system in Titan Quest, it was fun and seemed to lend a bit of more flavor towards having something other than a set template of classes. I felt it allowed a player to better determine what kind of role in a group they could play. Even if it were in solo play, I think it offers a bit more variety to suit a player's desired playstyle.

As for weapons or other items gaining experience and the like, I'm having a few Daikatana flashbacks.

A vampiric blade, which starts out mediocre and possible less than other items, which you "feed" by taking the life of monsters. That sounds like one decent example, while adding in some challenge. Wait, it gets better, and for reasons of game balance. Undead, mechanicals, or similar, it could be useless against, preventing it from being a "macro weapon" of being able to kill anything if you leveled it high enough. That way you would have to keep alternative weapons around for those situations.

Last edited by The Roshambo Warrior : 06-24-2009 at 02:40 PM.
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