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  #1  
Old 08-14-2009, 02:24 PM
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Default Dungeon crawl quests

First sorry for no news for the last few weeks. I was hiking in Colorado with the family. It was very nice.

Quests in the dungeon crawl (which I really need to name soon) are going to be similar in some ways to the quests in Depths of Peril. Like DoP they are going to be random, they will be able to spawn more quests, you will be able to fail quests, and they can have consequences if you fail them or just solve them too slowly. There are many differences though.

Each town has a few quests that need to be solved and these will be different for every single town. This is why you are here. You are the hero come to save the town. Each adventure will start with different quests, will have a different town with different npcs, and will have different world modifiers. But even if everything started the same, the adventure would still play out differently each time. The quests can branch differently, new random quests will spawn, and everything responds to what you do or don't do.

In DoP, the system could spawn more quests during a quest. For example, a unique monster could send an assassin to town. This can still happen, but now the game tells you who sent the assassin to town. This way you see the connections between the quests better. In this game though, the system can also spawn more quests when you fail a quest, complete a quest, or solve a quest.

Warning: spoiler next. For example, not all npcs are what they seem. Yesterday I added a new escort quest. It works exactly like a normal escort quest until you complete it. This is where the npc betrays you, goes renegade, ambushes you with a group of monsters, and attacks you. Most escort question will be what you expect, but every once in a while you might just be surprised. I'm hoping to have potential twists to all of the quests to keep things a bit interesting.

There will also be more variations of each type of quest. DoP had town attacks which were really cool and they had variations because the monster type was different each time. However, in the dungeon crawl I'm thinking of at least having raids, town attacks, and invasions. Town attacks would be similar to DoP town attacks. Raids would be fairly quick attacks that stop on their own. Invasions would be major, full out assaults. All three are basically town attacks, but they are different enough to add a bit of flavor.

I still have one question that I haven't quite answered yet. How specific do I want to make quests? I can make hardcoded quest chains just like most games that are very specific and statically chain to the next quest. If we do this it would be completely random when the quest chain would start though. This would make each quest a bit more immersive, but only the first time. The second time you see the quest, it's boring. Or do I make all of the quests a bit less specific, so that they are always more replayable? This way seems a bit less immersive on the first pass, but you are never going to know what happens before hand even if you have seen this exact quest before. Each time it might branch differently.

Any thoughts? Any cool quest ideas?
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  #2  
Old 08-16-2009, 04:16 PM
SharpCarlos SharpCarlos is offline
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That all sounds really cool!

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I still have one question that I haven't quite answered yet. How specific do I want to make quests?
I vote for quests that are less-specific/more-random. Mainly for the reasons you cite (in a game with this much focus on randomization and replayability, I don't want anything to damage that), but for another reason as well. If I'm playing over and over with the same character, I want to maintain the fiction that he's going on one long series of adventures, traveling from town to town. If any quest elements are too specific and repeat, it breaks that illusion.
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Old 08-16-2009, 11:28 PM
icekrystal10 icekrystal10 is offline
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I agree with SharpCarlos, but I think there should be an overarching goal to the game. There has to be an overall reason why the character exists in the world. How he gets to the end can be random, but why is he adventuring in the first place? If that makes sense.
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by icekrystal10 View Post
I agree with SharpCarlos, but I think there should be an overarching goal to the game. There has to be an overall reason why the character exists in the world. How he gets to the end can be random, but why is he adventuring in the first place? If that makes sense.
Hmm, that could be interesting. You definitely have a purpose at the town level, but I haven't thought of any greater goal. Any ideas?
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:44 PM
scragar scragar is offline
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Quote:
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Hmm, that could be interesting. You definitely have a purpose at the town level, but I haven't thought of any greater goal. Any ideas?
How cliché do you want it?
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:47 PM
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Cliché or not, I would like to hear ideas.
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  #7  
Old 08-17-2009, 08:31 PM
SharpCarlos SharpCarlos is offline
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So, are we talking about an overall purpose that leads to an end-point? Like, an actual "You've saved enough towns, now you win" sort of thing? Because I'd rather not see that happen. I like the idea that I can just keep running a character over and over again, forever.

Or are we talking about simply having some sort of backstory for the character? As in, "Why is THIS guy running around saving towns?" My first thought was "Yeah, that'd be cool, and it should be randomized, like so many other things in the game." But then I realized that I'd rather have that in my control, as part of character creation. What if we got to choose a backstory, and our choice also had some small (non-game-breaking) effect? Like a bonus of some sort?

Combining the two approaches: what if my backstory ALSO gave my character some over-arching goal? Simple example:

Backstory: parents were murdered by zombies, I want revenge.
Bonus: extra damage to the undead.
Goal: kill 1,000 undead creatures.

So, in choosing my backstory, I'm also choosing my "ending", and my choices will impact how I play the game. If I'm in a dungeon with few or no undead, I'll just burn through it as fast as possible. If I'm in a "horror" themed dungeon with tons of undead, I'll scour every level for enemies.

A more sophisticated version of this concept would cause the reaching of my goal to trigger one final dungeon that ties into my backstory (in this example, the final boss would be the necromancer responsible for my parents' death). I could still keep playing beyond that (I'm still a good guy who wants to save more towns), but I've achieved sort of a win condition for that character.

Other backstories (along with bonuses and goals, should the game go that direction):

Background: You're the Chosen One, foretold by prophecy to save the land (hey, you said you were okay with cliches!).
Bonus: lower prices in shops, on account of being Chosen and all.
Goal: Finish X number of dungeons.

Background: Raised in poverty, you're trying to find your fortune.
Bonus: monsters drop more gold.
Goal: accumulate X amount of wealth.

Background: You just want to be famous.
Bonus: increased XP from completing quests.
Goal: reach the level cap.

Background: You run a museum, and are a collector of antiquities.
Bonus: higher "luck" / more item drops.
Goal: collect X number of items of whatever the highest tier of rarity is.

I guess I'm sort of suggesting that the game track and reward the players for achieving the kinds of goals they'd set for themselves anyway. In spite of what I said earlier, now I kind of LIKE the idea of a "win" condition for my characters, as long as A) I get to choose it, and B) I get to keep playing with that same character even after I achieve it. And, I guess, C) it should be fairly difficult and time consuming. We already have the bite-sized short term goals (finish a dungeon and save the town). The overarching goal should be a pretty big deal.
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:12 PM
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Quest : won't you use an overall story like you did in DoP ? I thought the story quests rather simple (go kill XYZ);, but still gives a sense of progression in the game. If they're not that complicated to use, why remove it?

If I undestood correctly, the setting is similar to DoP except that the town is randomized?

Will you have an overal map?

Maybe you can randomize town contents but still have a large map, and towns can have some fixed settings and variable settings.

Then after doing X amount of towns you can complete the map. Starting a new world would mean a new collection of towns, and a new adventure.

If each town has its "fixed" story then you can use that to flag the town as completed, and then the world as completed.

Then players who like some type of story quests better can go for those first, and maybe some thematics, eg: jungle setting ,desert setting, instead of being completely random can be according to location on the world map?


---

Random ideas:

Once had this idea that a hero would need to reincarnate into various "facets" in order to fully complete the game. Hence playing as a warrior, a mage type, an archer type, etc. The game would track the overall completion, I had this vague image of classes displayed on a wheel (the wheel of "karma"), and once the 4 or 5 points on the wheel are complete then the "hero" would be complete. As for what happened next I dont know but it's something that could be developed.

To make the game more interesting your character would get some kind of bonus or skill usable from the previous "incarnation". So gameplay changes a little bit based on the order you go onto that wheel.

It would have been funny to see marks of previous deeds into the game world, commemorative statue or monument, tales recounted by NPC's, relating to another "facet" of the same hero.

SharpCarlos I like the backstory related to the character!
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpCarlos View Post
So, are we talking about an overall purpose that leads to an end-point? Like, an actual "You've saved enough towns, now you win" sort of thing? Because I'd rather not see that happen. I like the idea that I can just keep running a character over and over again, forever.
Well that is kind of what we are talking about here yes. Right now there isn't an end goal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fab View Post
Quest : won't you use an overall story like you did in DoP ? I thought the story quests rather simple (go kill XYZ);, but still gives a sense of progression in the game. If they're not that complicated to use, why remove it?

If I undestood correctly, the setting is similar to DoP except that the town is randomized?

Will you have an overal map?
Each town is in its own separate world and all of the quests are randomized, so having an overall story would be a little weird (my opinion of course).
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  #10  
Old 08-18-2009, 07:38 PM
scragar scragar is offline
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If possible I think it might be cool to have all the stories linked, maybe some large natural disaster has caused a food shortage, driving monsters into towns around the world(in different countries/areas) in search of food. This'd also be a good reason for people to turn to crime, increase prices in shops etc, as everyone struggles for food. It'd also explain why all these towns in games are almost empty, everyone is out getting food/working in a farm/whatever.
This has given everyone a reason to come out of hiding, the guy who's parents were killed by zombies has been dragged into this struggle by the rising number of dead(and thus undead), the clichéd hero has started his journey as the disaster marks the first sign in a prophecy that'll destroy the whole world without his interfearance, the guy looking for money is hoping to earn some cash as a mercinary, protecting the towns from attacks, the magic user who's spent 3/4 of his life studing is forced to leave the protection of his tower from lack of food, leading him to try and take down the threat so he can resume his studies.

I personally don't think a natural disaster is a good idea, but I do like the idea of there being a natural cause, rather than one always brought on by big bad, how many times in the universe can a single monster/person threated entire worlds?
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