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  #11  
Old 11-16-2016, 02:59 PM
Viliki Viliki is offline
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Before reach level 100 I have some doubts that it's better killing clans quickly or let them kill each other, you lost ton of xp, and plenty gold, it's certainly not the most efficient approach in that point of view.

At level 100 I suppose there's no point to do it anymore, it's in fact a gameplay element a bit weird at level 100.

I never quoted much set items by destroying whole clans, often none at all. But right it's still certainly more efficient for that purpose than let clans alive to hope they provide set item in their shop.

There's perhaps a few exceptions, The Collectors could be a better source than killing clans, I don't know but it's possible.

I think that it's not killing clans but killing their leader that would be the best way to collect items, but I didn't quote tricks to ensure it. They'll flee and won't even attempt protect the healthstone, you need some luck to either met them in the wild, either fight then and kill them before they escape.

I agree that no win rewards are a goal, moreover all can be found in the areas.

In my last town, alliance win, new reward, I got plenty mental scrap... pointless.

Myself I prefer the alliance win just because it is less systematic than all other, it gives a light feeling to have achieve something, well except if it's an automatic one like ally with one or two clan and kill all other. :-)

I don't understand why the win rewards aren't better:
- For NPC as a reward they should be picked in a set of famous NPC well designed with a fixed set of skills, jobs and traits.
- For crafting material reward they should have a guaranteed amount of higher level crafting element, or even include a few gems that are crafting material too.
- For quests reward, it should be a guaranty of 2 items, set, legendary or artifact and at a level close or higher to character level.
- And the war reward could be a chest with a mix like one gem, one item set/legendary/artifact, and some higher level crafting material, plus some random items.
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  #12  
Old 11-16-2016, 04:25 PM
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Honestly, to me, it just sounds like you aren't farming them quickly or efficiently because I can't even theoretically visualize what you've written.

Enemy clan members give normal experience based on level and rank just like everything else. They don't have any special modifiers. So, I don't know how you can claim that it's a loss of exp.

In regards to gold, killing clans has no influence on your gold at all... and you can trade clans to take their gold before you kill them if you're worried about that. So, I honestly don't even know what you are referring to in this instance.

For item drops, meh, I can't be arsed to go test in game and get definite numbers. But, raiding clans is my ideal method for acquiring items while leveling new characters. And, my MF character acquires at least one legendary per area, with multiple set, unique and artifact item drops.

In the end, fighting clans lets you kill off hundreds of enemies in a short period of time. So, I'd definitely recommend giving it another go because it's an extremely efficient way to farm gold and experience that you are missing out on... especially while leveling once you can kill enemy clans quickly.

---

Also, I'll give you a tip. (You may already know this but just in case I feel that I should write... and hey maybe a newbie will see this.)

If you grab the Scavenger perk (obtain monster mods when you kill them), and have clans raid you, you can gain an absurd number of buffs in a short amount of time from the enemy clan members and the ghosts that they spawn. This will make your farm rate absolutely stupid.

I have to say that Pain Delay is still the most overpowered 'anything' in the game because it provides near-invulnerability. But, in terms of overall power, Scavenger is superior to pain delay by miles. This is because the downside of you being vulnerable as you need to build up a killing spree is heavily overshadowed by the massive damage, movement speed, resists, armor and more buffs that scavenger provides once your killing spree gets rolling (you basically become an invulnerable clear speed god).

But, hey, they are both in the same tree so you can get both and just ruin the game for yourself by becoming nuclear.
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  #13  
Old 11-17-2016, 03:59 AM
Viliki Viliki is offline
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Each clan has many quests, when you progress quickly to clean areas you solve most quests of all clans, solving a quest for another clan is xp and gold, that's a lot of gold and xp if you or another clan haven't killed them.

Overall make NPC guard the town, rush clean areas and discover clans, try most don't get killed before you have solved the large part of their quests.

Then you can kill clans.

But ok I never bother kill instantly any clan I find. But I wonder if you ever did anything else because you clearly don't realize how much gold and xp come from quests of other clans. Moreover in your approach it's like you don't care at all about any areas so about any of your own quests, that's a little bizarre for me.

But ok, I don't do that last approach (kill asap any clan met) because I find it tedious, not because I really evaluated its efficiency.

I haven't bother try traits yet but yes Scavenger and Pain Delay seem interesting options.
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  #14  
Old 11-17-2016, 06:07 PM
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I do complete quite a lot of quests in each area. My problem is that I outlevel an area far before I come even close to getting an adventurer win. From memory, I think the lowest I've ever seen is ~70 quests remaining in an area after I've found all of the clans and hit my ideal level for the area.

The only quests I complete are the ones to kill off monsters (yellow-orange named). Sometimes I do the item pickup quests, if the amount needed is low, the area layout is nice, or I intend to be in the zone for a while. But, other than those, all of the other ones are not worth the time spent.

Generally speaking, my play through is like: Find all clans while killing all orange aura'd mobs in sight. Once I find all 8 clans, kill them off for loot and exp. Create new area.

The time spent to complete every quest after I find all 8 clans and go for an adventurer win is far superior to that of a military win. It's like... complete 100+ quests vs. kill 8 clans. One can take hours and the other takes like... 5 minutes.

I'd like to also note that there are probably a lot of different variables between us that make our experiences and perspectives different.

1.) I use exp gear as much as possible, so this makes overleveling very easy.
2.) I like to always farm in areas with much higher levels.
3.) We probably have different opinions on what 'overleveled' is and what a 'good level difference' for farming a zone is.
4.) You may play with fewer clans, which makes the adventurer win more appealing. You also may play in larger areas, which again, makes it more attractive. (Different world settings, basically.)

etc.

So, yea.

"I haven't bother try traits yet but yes Scavenger and Pain Delay seem interesting options."

Wow, you're really missing out. Level 100 without using traits? Dear god.

Once you use the two of them, report back. I'd love to here your thoughts ;D.

Edit: I did want to make a video of me speed running to 100. But, jeez, the file size of the videos are so nuts. Totally forgot about this being a problem the last time I tried to make let's plays. I'm glad I did a break after 30 minutes to make sure everything was ok. Perhaps I'll just stream over twitch and let it do the recording for me, haha.

Last edited by Destro* : 11-17-2016 at 07:04 PM.
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  #15  
Old 11-17-2016, 07:07 PM
Viliki Viliki is offline
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Usual setup:
- Large or medium world, I think now I'll stick to medium, the filling isn't good enough with large. The advantage of large is to generate more dungeons, with more levels. But it also tend generates too many areas without any quests.
- 8 clans.
- Most often with zombies.
- Start world at character level, a too high level doesn't allow me defend town with NPC or I should build clan differently.
- I don't use any single gear increasing combat xp, that's why only xp from quests seem worth it.
- I don't bother power build my characters.

Also some points:
- I don't bother much do any farming before level 100 it feels not worth it and anyway I never enjoyed pure farming. No way I play any game just for farming.
- I don't argue about farming , just about XP.
- For reaching the faster the end, nothing can beat an alliance win, eventually just with a clan, it's still time saved. :-)

I think our divergence of opinion come at least in part from those points:
- You cumulate many gear increasing combat xp so you can't see it like I do, that only quests matter.
- You focus on farming, I don't see it worth it.
- There's perhaps a trick you apply ensuring killing the leader of clans, I don't know it hence it lower a lot drops quality of clans.
- Possibly you play smaller world and character killing significantly faster so you just rush a world and never need bother defend the town nor bother about the clan.
- Possibly I didn't quote well drops from clans, or didn't made it enough and got bad luck.

But I'll admit that it's not worth argue more until I just try apply the exact way you describe. :-) Not for current world, but I'll try next. :-)

Last edited by Viliki : 11-21-2016 at 05:50 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-18-2016, 05:32 PM
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edit: Nvm, videos are just too glitchy.

Last edited by Destro* : 11-18-2016 at 08:16 PM.
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  #17  
Old 11-21-2016, 05:50 PM
Viliki Viliki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Destro* View Post
edit: Nvm, videos are just too glitchy.
Too bad the game is lacking of good let's play. I'd wish see one from a player with a sophisticated play of the clan.

But yeah you could show me your OP character too. :-)

Frankly I tried check bonuses for combats XP and it doesn't go that far. I don't know if you are this player quoting he had 900% combat XP bonus but if you are and you get your feeling from this setup, it's not reasonable. I doubt you get it with one character.

That said, I tried observe my gameplay approach and if there's periods of very high XP income there's also periods with much less income. So overall it's not that good, too many quests provide crap XP.

But also I feel you only play tiny world, 8 clans, which maximize your approach but also deny elements of the gameplay. In my point of view tiny would be just for discovering the game. But ok that's just my point of view.

But anyway the point is I find more fun from world a bit larger, give myself an additional little challenge to pacify all clans, bother on my clan, exploit the crafting and buffing from NPC more than focus on items drops. So even very fast level up isn't my deal it would let NPC clan too far behind.

I'll start a new world at next play session but I'm not sure I'll try your approach to see by myself. Eventually I prefer admit it's probably the faster way to grind, and a good way to farm.

For farming, I suspect the game gives a bonus to drops computed on difference between character level at creation and world at creation, it could be why for you clan drops are quite better.
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  #18  
Old 11-28-2016, 01:04 PM
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I just started testing out the diplomatic wins and... HOLY CRAP!

I won 520 alteration shards for a win in a level 60 zone. 520! I didn't even realize that you could get 260 before the buff. But getting 520 now... wow.

I do realize that it is probably really lucky of me to even get alteration shards as a reward. But, even still, the chance of getting this many alteration shards, and potentially other the other high tier crafting materials, makes military wins completely obsolete to me. From now on, I'm killing 7 clans and allying one for diplomatic wins.

For comparison, my mf character in non-hc has 1.7k alt shards and 100k grindstones. Two diplomatic wins in a level 100 zone for alt shards would surpass 1.7k most likely.

Also, edit, made a couple of videos to show off my chars a little bit.

Vid 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4njf...ature=youtu.be
Vid 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxjcW7Gujd0

Last edited by Destro* : 11-28-2016 at 02:54 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-28-2016, 05:31 PM
Viliki Viliki is offline
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Yes you get very lucky for the alliance win reward, not for the number but the type, since the patch, I always got armor scrap, a ton but nobody care ton or not.

It's cool you made the effort to do those video, thank you. :-)

For the summoner, it's not really impressive :-P you didn't tried bring two NPC each with only one low level summon skill, it's seriously more impressive BUT ok world level +20 at level 60 is perhaps out of reach (as far I know NPC equipments doesn't provide bonus to summons like player character can). For the clans attack drops I didn't see the numerous set items nor the "mandatory" legendary. :-)

When I see your clan almost empty, I'm trying suspect my problems of performance come a lot from my clans. What's sure is even on Windows I don't have your performances and as I wrote my Hardware isn't low level.

EDIT: I really hope you gave a chance to the full game, clan+bigger world+party+zombies. Well if you tried and just prefer another setup ok, but at least you should try. And about alliance win reward, with no clan you cut your drops by half because a clan even small would allow any crafting at 50% cost, and one at 25%.

EDIT2: About XP, world level +5 (character level 57 or 59 at creation), plenty quests reward are 5K, some (groups) 15K to 20K, pay to find target, rush to targets, get your reward. For first parts of a world nothing can beat that, kill clans at this point is lost of time, for second half, for sure nothing can beat the speed of killing clans, all other win are slower. In my opinion faster grind would be start world, rush do plenty quest, optionaly kill a few clans, and leave world and don't bother win nor find all clans, and repeat.

Last edited by Viliki : 11-28-2016 at 05:50 PM.
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  #20  
Old 11-28-2016, 06:48 PM
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You can totally gear out your npcs to have super overpowered summons. In fact, the whole reason I don't play with clans is because, imho, they make the game too easy.

If you manually equip gear onto your town npcs, you can create some of the most ridiculously overpowered creatures (yes, creatures, because they aren't even human anymore). All npcs by default have ridiculous health values. And, they also have the luxury of investing HEAVILY into 1-2 skill (I mean, you have to find the right npc but it's not hard). It might sound crazy, but if I were to transfer my gear to a summoner npc in my town that only have summon screes as a skill, he'd be more powerful than me! Now imagine me having 2 npcs like this and then being a summoner myself! Broken!

You should probably be aware of this because the summons of enemy clans are always way higher levels than the members of the clan themselves. I just fought a level 78 clan and one of the town members was summoning furies with an effective level of 105! Crazy!
--
In regards to the legendary item, I only get that when fully mf geared. As I said, my gear was scattered everywhere and I didn't even have a mf potion popped... so what you're saying is not really applicable. There is also the fact that I didn't even kill off the whole clan, and it was half-sized because it's not even a level 200 town. *shrug* I will make a few videos of mf runs on my current hardcore char if/when I hit level 100 and start farming level 100 zones.
--
Also, it's funny that you mention this though because on the livestreamed video, I got 2 legendaries off of the very first town that I killed off. Then a legendary item on the very next one, all while being like level 40 or something with no mf or anything. I don't remember the level exactly though. It's a shame that the video was 90 gigabytes long so it bugged out like crazy (vlc player couldn't play it and twitch vod is giving 'error decoding media'.)
--
For performance, still no idea how to help. My only lags are from mass particles (mass overlapping spells from the super town attacks and fires mainly).
--
In regards to zombies, them being off is just a setting that I forgot from some recent testing. Though, they don't really make a difference. The town raids are just intense with them off and if I ever need a cure and don't have pots, I just refresh worlds till I get a pot. Meh. Actually, it's harder to have zombies off because I can't benefit from mutations with my scavanger trait, lol.
--
I've played with most of the other world settings and my current setup is my favorite. I don't like larger areas unless I'm farming normal difficulty before champion and I want to avoid the exp penalty for switching zones.
--
For exp, it really all depends on how much combat exp you have on gear. If you have a lot, killing off monsters is going to be the fastest exp no matter what. Even the 15k quests (kill packs) are 'just ok' when mobs are giving 800 minimum and a single sergeant gives like 6k. Right now, I'm geared to get 10k per sergeant and I plan to hit 15k or more at around level 90.

/wall of text
--
In regards to the legendary item, I only get that when fully mf geared. As I said, my gear was scattered everywhere and I didn't even have a mf potion popped... so what you're saying is not really applicable. There is also the fact that I didn't even kill off the whole clan, and it was half-sized because it's not even a level 200 town. *shrug* I will make a few videos of mf runs on my current hardcore char if/when I hit level 100 and start farming level 100 zones.
--
Also, it's funny that you mention this though because on the livestreamed video, I got 2 legendaries off of the very first town that I killed off. Then a legendary item on the very next one, all while being like level 40 or something with no mf or anything. I don't remember the level exactly though. It's a shame that the video was 90 gigabytes long so it bugged out like crazy (vlc player couldn't play it and twitch vod is giving 'error decoding media'.)
--
For performance, still no idea how to help. My only lags are from mass particles (mass overlapping spells from the super town attacks and fires mainly).
--
In regards to zombies, them being off is just a setting that I forgot from some recent testing. Though, they don't really make a difference. The town raids are just intense with them off and if I ever need a cure and don't have pots, I just refresh worlds till I get a pot. Meh. Actually, it's harder to have zombies off because I can't benefit from mutations with my scavanger trait, lol.
--
I've played with most of the other world settings and my current setup is my favorite. I don't like larger areas unless I'm farming normal difficulty before champion and I want to avoid the exp penalty for switching zones.
--
For exp, it really all depends on how much combat exp you have on gear. If you have a lot, killing off monsters is going to be the fastest exp no matter what. Even the 15k quests (kill packs) are 'just ok' when mobs are giving 800 minimum and a single sergeant gives like 6k. Right now, I'm geared to get 10k per sergeant and I plan to hit 15k or more at around level 90.

/wall of text

----------------

Edit: God******, died at level 91 to LIGHTNING AGAIN! This time the lightning orb ability. Paused right at instant I died... 2.3k damage popup text appeared... off screened. I had just over 2.4k total life from mana + hp, and I guess my mana wasn't capped, so... rip. In restrospect, I could have played it better (more light res/int potion/light pot). But, I felt really safe. I always feel safe. The highest dot that I was hit with was an 83 over time, and then BOOM, out of nowhere, 2.3k burst. I even felt that my huge amount of minions would counter all damage sources, but lightning orb is multi-target and spawned right on top of me. I'm also pretty sure that the monster was off screen too... so fun stuff.

Here is the picture: http://i.imgur.com/hIlC25k.jpg

Idk what is up with lightning damage being so absurd. I'm thinking it's bugged or completely overtuned. There is no way that I should take 2.3k through pain delay. There is just no way. That's 9.2k base damage (when factoring in my 88 resist), and even if you have enough lightning resist to reduce that damage by 50%, that would be 4,600 base damage. How would you survive that with the fragile difficulty mod enabled without pain delay ever? And even still, that's 1.1k a tick, which would be insanely higher than practically ever other damage source in the game. I'm going to test it in non-HC and see what is really going on because that is bonkers.

Aside from the testing, I think I'm going to take a break for a while. I was going to go for the Prima Dona + Cursed run, but I can't see it happening anymore, even with my abuses simply because of the fragile difficulty mod. It's kind of crazy, but maybe I need to reevaluate the difficulty mod tier list to put fragile at #1. The pain delay nerf was surprisingly impactful.

Well, in any case, after I test lightning damage out a bit, I'll be able to more accurately express my thoughts and plan ahead.

Edit 2: Yeah, I can also conclude that I got off screened just from a bit of logic. I took a second picture which shows that the log where the caster died AFTER I died. So, yeah, I can basically conclude that I was off screened, because the caster would have been visible on my screen at the time that I died. And, there is also no corpse nearby me in the second screenshot after the fact.

http://imgur.com/a/eMIEN

It's possible that at the exact instant that I died, the caster ran away and was killed by my minions later. But, considering that it died 2 seconds later, and that my minions always surround their targets instantly (which prevents movements), the corpse would be in range. Since it's not, I have to imagine that the caster was off screen. Would be really nice if I could zoom out now that I'm dead. Shame.

edit 3: exact hp+mana = Health: 0 / 540, Mana: 61 / 1959 (lol, taken from character export)

Last edited by Destro* : 11-28-2016 at 09:09 PM.
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