Soldak Home   Drox Operative   Din's Curse   Depths of Peril   Zombasite  

Go Back   Soldak Entertainment Forums > Zombasite > Zombasite
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 11-28-2016, 08:12 PM
Viliki Viliki is offline
Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 161
Default

About alliance win reward, once more I got crap scrap armor, and this time a weak number less than 6K. And the worse is it was for a perfect alliance with all clans, 9 including my clan. Ok this is non efficient grinding and farming. :-)

Player Character can have damages of 1.000.000 damages why expect it's more balanced for NPC? :-) I doubt their high HP make them better than a player character. I didn't quote they had any other advantages, do they?

I don't know yet if NPC can level up higher than 100, if not, with the increasing SKP cost and their low number of skills they can't match a player character. The exception could be summoners but as I mentioned I don't think their equipments can give bonus to their summons.

For the NPC summoners, sure it's quickly boring, but not more boring to play than a summoner focusing on a low level summon. Nothing force use those NPC summoners, as nothing force you use a PC summoner specialized in a low level summon.

I don't use such NPC anymore beside for guarding some doors, or sometimes some light summoners as Fire Elemental, Archer or Demon. Still if you just look efficiency as you seem do I doubt any of your over powered character alone can compete. It's a bit bizarre on one side you use most exploits as 900% XP bonus (meaning 1000%) and on another you refuse use an efficient tool that would provide the best farming and grinding rates. :-P

For clan summoners and warrior PC I hadn't much troubles but possibly I never met one very specialized. For my current Demon Hunter without the same mobility, I don't know, could be more a problem.

Past level 100 it's another matter, still the video shows the clan drops are crap as I said, you say you got 2 legendary from previous town but myself I never ever quoted clans drops are good, beside catch their leader by luck. It's possible at level 200 everything at max or with high magical drop chance it's different, but then it's more a bug, as on base clans aren't good drops. The point out of clan is not lost time kill anything and you'll kill much more elite and better than from clans and logically you should get much more better drops, if not for me it's a bug in magical drop chance, and ok for 200 it's another context.

I didn't knew there was xp penalty from quitting a town. :-)

Ok 1000% XP bonus on combats can make quests XP crap. But you really have a huge XP bonus for all character levels from level 1? This would be a lot of work, I doubt you had it at your second character, but ok I'll never have it at any number of character, I won't even bother try it and risk make quests partly pointless. :-)

Ok you tried all setups and that's cool and you choose different setups than I do. For me the best is what involves the most elements of gameplay and tiny, no zombies, no clan, no party are all removing elements. That's why I choose my setup, your setup is different, it's totally fine, except that it put the game at standard Diablo like level and for me it fails compete limited to that aspect, from drops to skills and classes designs and equipments designs.

For me it's one of the design hole of the game, not have build a complete coherent gameplay, for example the clan should be mandatory without adding more OP holes.

EDIT: In 4H 36mn game time, 13 level up and a lot of time lost in building a 9 clans alliance, is it really that bad without any gear with XP bonus?

Last edited by Viliki : 11-28-2016 at 08:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-28-2016, 09:01 PM
Destro*'s Avatar
Destro* Destro* is offline
Elite
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 287
Default

"About alliance win reward, once more I got crap scrap armor, and this time a weak number less than 6K. And the worse is it was for a perfect alliance with all clans, 9 including my clan. Ok this is non efficient grinding and farming. :-)"

I would never try to ally all 9 clans. I kill 7 while being allied to the remaining clan. Much more time efficient.

You can quickly form alliances late game by trading items to other clans. But, that's late game... and then, it's probably better to just kill the 7 clans for their loot (at least imho).

"Player Character can have damages of 1.000.000 damages why expect it's more balanced for NPC? :-) I doubt their high HP make them better than a player character. I didn't quote they had any other advantages, do they?"

I think it's wrong to try to compare npcs to players in such a black and white manner. I'm arguing that NPCs have a few strengths over players, rather than being all around better. In particular, if I don't play loner, I can just build full tank and have 2 npcs dps for me. I've tried it before and the game just becomes a joke. There is no challenge.

"I don't use such NPC anymore beside for guarding some doors, or sometimes some light summoners as Fire Elemental, Archer or Demon. Still if you just look efficiency as you seem do I doubt any of your over powered character alone can compete. It's a bit bizarre on one side you use most exploits as 900% XP bonus (meaning 1000%) and on another you refuse use an efficient tool that would provide the best farming and grinding rates. :-P"

I've already experienced 'the best farming and grinding rates' in non-hardcore. Did you see my character ByTheHolyLight's inventory in my video? I had like 20 legendaries in my inventory from drops alone, and I was wearing 4 rare legendary items with a legendary necklace. You know how rare a legendary necklace is, right? They are the rarest drop in the game (Well a perfect 6 mod rare drop might be rarer, but you get the idea). If I were to show you my shared stash, you would probably shed a tear out of pure joy at the beauty. Though, it's a bit wacky because I have some modded items there from when I was working on my mod.

I play on loner because I want more challenge. I want a greater sense of accomplishment. That's the whole point of difficulty mods, at least that's what I think.

"Past level 100 it's another matter, still the video shows the clan drops are crap as I said [...]"

You call 2 elite items and a set item from 30 town members with a non-optimized mf setup bad? Then, we clearly have different definitions of good. You should be able to easily see just from that small sample size that 400 clan members (or 800 at level 200) will drop CRAPTONS of set, elite and artifact gear. (Even some legendary gear as well). I suppose I can't comment on this anymore. After I deal with this lightning damage issue, I'm going to do an mf run for you so you can see what it's like.

For exp, 900% exp is only like 5 items with ~180-190% exp. On non-hardcore, I have 4 relics with 200% exp percent, so I don't even have to sacrifice gear slots lol. If you have a full exp build, you can break 3000% exp. Though, I only do that in non-hardcore.

Last edited by Destro* : 11-28-2016 at 09:14 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-29-2016, 01:40 AM
Viliki Viliki is offline
Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 161
Default

Sure the full clans alliance isn't efficient for grinding and farming, it's just a little challenge, I bet you never achieved it. :-P

Your video didn't look challenging at all.

2 elite items and a set item from 30 town members? There's a bug, I never seen that.

But ok I don't want argue more about grinding and farming, I feel bizarre some quote you do about that, but ok I don't play level 200 town, nor use 1000% XP or magic drop chance increase.

And relics have level requirement, if not you exploit a bug. If there was relic with level requirement 20 and 200% + XP bonus I would have see at least some 100% but nope. I wonder if we play the same game. :-)

Last edited by Viliki : 11-29-2016 at 01:48 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-29-2016, 06:07 AM
Destro*'s Avatar
Destro* Destro* is offline
Elite
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 287
Default

"Sure the full clans alliance isn't efficient for grinding and farming, it's just a little challenge, I bet you never achieved it. :-P"

You bet wrong :-P.

And challenge? Lol. All you're doing is creating artificial difficulty by not using an efficient method. It's kind of funny that you criticized me for inefficiency (Quote: "and on another you refuse use an efficient tool that would provide the best farming and grinding rates") but then you're doing practically the same thing. Haha.

You could just trade a few items for 8 clan alliance like I said. But, hey, if you want to grind reputation slowly through quests, that's all you.

Also, it's really strange to me that you keep calling stacking mf or experience mods exploits. How are they exploits? Shadow designed the game to work that way. There is no cheating involved at all.

Like, with your logic, is putting on a legendary item an exploit? Is killing monsters an exploit? I don't understand where you draw the line between an exploit and not exploit. How is using the mods on gear ever an exploit?

"2 elite items and a set item from 30 town members? There's a bug, I never seen that."

Never saw it? Then watch my video again. LOL (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4njf...ature=youtu.be)

Also, I was wrong about the drops I got. Here are some time stamps for you from the video where loot drops .

6:52 (1 elite)
6:54 (set item drops, hard to see)
7:33 (2 more elites)
7:41 (1 set)

So, yeah. I actually had 3 elite items drop and 2 set items. And, this was all with a completely legit character... sooo... how can you call it a bug? Lol.

The reason you haven't seen such good drops before is because you think using item farming mods is exploitative. Your loss!

"And relics have level requirement, if not you exploit a bug. If there was relic with level requirement 20 and 200% + XP bonus I would have see at least some 100% but nope. I wonder if we play the same game. :-)"

They didn't have level requirements in the past. I have legacy relics with 200%+ spell dmg, minion stats, combat exp, etc. that have no level requirement. #JustVeteranThings

I think it's a bit sad you resort to calling everything a bug or exploit without trying to understand why/how something works. That kind of mindset seems a bit unproductive. But, hey, do you.

Last edited by Destro* : 11-29-2016 at 06:18 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-29-2016, 02:05 PM
Viliki Viliki is offline
Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 161
Default

I agree I don't optimize grinding and farming and make alliance with all clans isn't linked to any efficiency.

I have no problem admit it, I don't see why you deny it's as artificial to decide not use the clan. But it's not worth argue on that, we disagree but it's not important.

For relics I disagree with you again, you use items from beta it's exploit, and it's not ok for me that you argue with using items that shouldn't exist anymore. In fact there's still a bug with relics and it's probably still possible by having a relic cursed and uncurse it makes the item level 1. It's still a bug and 1000% XP bonus is no way a standard setup and arguing based on exploiting it aren't valid in my point of view, your point of view is different ok.

For clans drops, I didn't noticed the 2 set items in the video, I don't know why but I never got 2 set items and 3 elite for 30 members clans. Ok it works for you not for me.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-30-2016, 02:27 PM
Destro*'s Avatar
Destro* Destro* is offline
Elite
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 287
Default

I can't call using legacy gear an exploit because they were created, placed and left in the game by Shadow.

Based on Shadow's history of developing the game so far, he would likely have have retroactively nerfed the items at the same time that he corrected the properties of new items if he really felt that legacy relics are exploitative.

Again, I'm basing my opinion off of how the dev operates, not my own personal thoughts. That's why I feel my opinion is justified.

It's also possible that Shadow does consider then exploitative and/or didn't have the resources available to retroactively patch relics. But, I think both of those scenarios are unlikely.

My final thought is that it really doesn't matter if there are legacy versions or not because weapons and high-level gear don't even have level requirements. So, you can easily get super overpowered gear at like level 20 already anyway (1k% combat multi, 1k% spell multi, etc.).

Just my 2c.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 12-01-2016, 03:13 PM
Viliki Viliki is offline
Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 161
Default

Firstly items have most often no level requirement but they have attribute requirements that you have no chance to reach at low level, so it's not a good argument.

Secondly, relics are different and now have a level requirement as soon as you add an enchant, and for most they have it on start. There's no more relics like you are using. But as I already quoted there's a bug, with relics level dropping when you uncurse it,. Ok but that can't be something else than a bug because it's clearly incoherent.

There's no more relics like you get during beta and you think it's legit? Seriously, it's more a bug dev didn't deleted them from your inventory, or he didn't do it to avoid complains.

But it's just a point about the 1000% XP bonus, at level 100 and item farming pure efficiency, ok, I haven't tested yet that specifically.

I have started play world with level +. Level +2 was pointless, level +5 didn't changed the difficulty but could have change a little the drops, level +10 could influence more the drops but I load back because it was too much for my current character, I'll probably try +8, +6 looks too much like +5, and if it's not yet ok, I'll load back and will stick to +5 or +6. So what i'm saying, is drops behaviors depend of multiple elements, how I play clan drops is crap, but how you play ok it seems clan is much better drops.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 12-01-2016, 07:39 PM
Destro*'s Avatar
Destro* Destro* is offline
Elite
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 287
Default

Quote:
Firstly items have most often no level requirement but they have attribute requirements that you have no chance to reach at low level, so it's not a good argument.
I just said you can do it by level 20. What, do you think I'm lying about this or something?

Dark Templar + points into strength + unholy vitality = free access to gear you normally should never be able to access. You can go up to level 100 plate gear with some skill, but even getting 'just' a level 50 weapon at like level 10 with even one build-relevant mod (spell dmg/weapon dmg, etc.) is absolutely a joke and makes all content a faceroll. This is another reason why I don't like non-hardcore, because sharing gear from other characters is another really overpowered method to develop characters. Even gear that is just a few too many levels above the content that you are facing (set/elite+ gear 20-30 levels over) makes content a faceroll. For new players and more casual people it's fine. But for me, it just ruins the fun of the game entirely.

If you doubt this, then I can really only blame your lack of knowledge/experience and recommend that you try it for yourself. But saying that I'm making a poor argument based on ignorance is simply a poor attempt at discrediting my words.

As for the relic statement, I have nothing more to say since I'll just be repeating what I said even more. You already acknowledged that you feel like it's a bug for Shadow to leave legacy items into the game, so there is really no more room for discussion since our disagreement fundamentally stems from there.

For fighting higher level mobs, monster level only influences the quality of drops by making higher tiered based available to be dropped. Higher levels shouldn't impact the actual drop amount or rarity of the items that you get. BUT, I do acknowledge that I may be wrong here. It's just that if I am, the change is so small and gradual that I've never noticed it. And, I've never seen any settings within the assets files to control this variable as well, so I don't suspect that this variable is real. But, I can't confirm or deny it definitely, so oh well.

Last edited by Destro* : 12-01-2016 at 07:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 12-02-2016, 02:12 PM
Viliki Viliki is offline
Champion
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 161
Default

ONE build can go over high level attribute requirement for ONE attribute and that's your arguing? Well ok let stop here. And nope you have nothing to argue about relics you can't get as drops anymore. Sure there's nothing to argue.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 12-02-2016, 06:14 PM
Destro*'s Avatar
Destro* Destro* is offline
Elite
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 287
Default

Nevermind, ignore this post.

Last edited by Destro* : 12-02-2016 at 07:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2007 - 2019 Soldak Entertainment, Inc.