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  #1  
Old 02-21-2011, 04:17 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Default Character Repository

Hey guys. Here's the problem: Shadow makes some balancing tweaks, which we then test. But there aren't that many of us, and we each have characters of different kinds at different levels (and with different items). As our characters go up in level, they become good for testing a specific level but not another. That means we don't really get to test how effective the change was, and we miss remaining imbalances or even worse -- new imbalances that were created by the changes.

My suggestion is this: let's create a testing framework. We'll unite our characters and save them on this thread at their current levels (and as they advance) so they can enable further testing. We'll post characters of different types at different level intervals, so we can all check how the game is for different classes at different levels. If someone detects an imbalance, he/she can state which testing character had the issue and at which level, and others can test it. Just remember that test characters that don't belong to you are not your characters to play with online, since that wouldn't be nice Testing with a character should not require more playtime than is needed to go up 1-2 levels (at most). Once you're done, you can re-download the old version of the character again so it's ready for further testing.

I think it's a good idea to post your original character every 15 levels or so, as that gives a good spread of levels. We should also post by need: if you see a conjurer class is already posted, there's no need to post your own unless your level/skill-set/item-set is substantially different than that of the already-posted character.

What do you think???
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  #2  
Old 02-21-2011, 10:32 AM
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Crisses Crisses is offline
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I think that's a reasonable idea if we're really dedicated to playtesting.

Me, I'm a sole-proprietor of my own business. I don't have time to playtest more than I can play. But I like helping out and pitching in.

So what I did yesterday was create a 2nd playtest install of DC (without Din's Additionals) and modded the game for accelerated play. I'm currently playtesting a pure Conjurer, for example, and in a couple hours I brought it up to level 32. (I changed the per-level XP so it would level faster, and the time to open chests, identify etc. because I personally don't want to be sitting around for artificial suspense activities -- I also modded drops which I'll post in a separate thread because I think item-type (not level) drops are backwards). I want to pull this character to the upper levels quickly to test endgame & a "pure spellcaster" build. Does it get boring? Is it too limited to survive?

Even though I leveled fast through the 20s, I still died plenty while still having enough "Stuff to do". I'm cramming nearly all my points into a narrow number of skills, to keep up with the baddies. Not able to have as much skill variety as the Rogue or fighters.

So right now I can (Necromancer) Raise Dead on 3 critters (+ some in Lich), I have a moderately high Blight, (Warlock) I can Summon Chaos Lord (+1 in Demon Mastery), (Sorceror) and I can Tornado. So basically I run into a crowded room with 4 tough goons and spam the crowd with debuff & area damage while they clean up. I happened on a staff that's good enough that I can knock heads around too, especially heads that are already hurting from everything else going on. It's a decent mid-game caster strategy. I'll have to test the Wizard & Priest class for playability too. I'll have to take it to the higher levels to see what endgame is like for this class. At any point I can drop my changes that accelerate the game and see "what it's really like" when I'm not leveling up every 10 minutes.

Testing non-hybrid casters seems to be one of the places we're all missing. I'll post the relevant changes to my game so people can rush-test if needed/desired.
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  #3  
Old 02-21-2011, 10:38 AM
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Crisses Crisses is offline
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Default Accelerated Play

If you just want to playtest more than play, here's the changes to "accelerate" game play. I didn't change the # skill or stat points you get per level, just made it faster to level up and faster to "hurry up and wait" while opening chests or identifying items. I basically just did this to save time. Hope it helps!

Code:
XesSystem overrides GameSystem
{

	MinIdentifyTime			0.25
	BaseIdentifyTime		1.0
	IdentifyTimeIncreasePerLevel	0.25
	
	MinChestOpenTime		0.25
	BaseChestOpenTime		1.0
	ChestOpenTimeIncreasePerLevel	0.25
	
	BaseXpNeededEachLevel	1000.0

	XpMultEachLevel1	1.25
	XpMultEachLevel4	1.125
	XpMultEachLevel6	1.075
	XpMultEachLevel11	1.05
	XpMultEachLevel21	1.025

	BaseReputationNeededEachLevel	1000.0

	ReputationMultEachLevel1	1.25
	ReputationMultEachLevel4	1.125
	ReputationMultEachLevel6	1.075
	ReputationMultEachLevel11	1.05
	ReputationMultEachLevel21	1.025
	
}
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  #4  
Old 02-21-2011, 11:36 AM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Very cool idea, though there's a slight problem: the dungeon doesn't get powerful fast enough to reflect the real difficulty. You character's leveling up faster and can therefore tear through a dungeon that was created for it 5 levels ago, but usually a character has to level up slowly, dealing with tougher monsters (relatively) as a result.

Hopefully we could split up testing between volunteers so it doesn't take much time. Instead of people overlapping with their characters, we could split up the levels/classes: 5-10 minutes each on 2 testing classes per person is all that's needed.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluddy View Post
Very cool idea, though there's a slight problem: the dungeon doesn't get powerful fast enough to reflect the real difficulty. You character's leveling up faster and can therefore tear through a dungeon that was created for it 5 levels ago, but usually a character has to level up slowly, dealing with tougher monsters (relatively) as a result.

Hopefully we could split up testing between volunteers so it doesn't take much time. Instead of people overlapping with their characters, we could split up the levels/classes: 5-10 minutes each on 2 testing classes per person is all that's needed.
I purposefully play dungeons a minimum of 4 levels above my own to help with this problem. It starts out harder but balances out quickly enough. I'm not lingering -- just get it done with.
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Old 02-21-2011, 12:24 PM
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Crisses Crisses is offline
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My problem is my ego. Admitted, right up front. I come up with an idea of a character, I play that character with that personality/motivation in mind, and I become "attached" to the character. When you grow with the character, you figure out how to combine spells/skills in a certain way, you aim for say item/magic find vs. armor, or high resistances, or whatever when you choose items.

Picking up someone's level 60 character and running with it will NOT convey -- to me -- how that character is balanced. I didn't choose those skills, and I didn't arm them. I don't have 60 levels of experience with them. So how do I know how well they play? It's going to be more work for me than just 10 minutes of playing with that character to really get a feel for them.

The way I'm doing it, I can bring the character up to 60 then drop the "cheat" and actually play the character through some number of levels of a dungeon at their level. Then I can do it again at level 75 & 90. It's not a bad idea to snapshot the character now at like level 32 also, and again around 45 -- that part of your idea i like, and I wouldn't mind sharing the character/build for others to take it for a stroll. But we all have different playing styles just like I have a dvorak keyboard layout and have my hotkeys set up a certain way.

The question isn't whether someone can come in cold-turkey at level 45 and clear a room with this character. The question is whether someone playing them who has played them for 45 levels can clear a room without it being TOO easy OR too hard. I don't play for speed. I'm not a button-masher (too much RSI for that!). I'd rather play smart than play hard. If someone prefers hacknslash/button mashing/real-time gaming -- then my character builds wouldn't be for them.

So here's this character: "Sauron" pure Conjurer. Blatant plagiarism. He summons his ring wraiths, raises dead big powerful things as his allys, posions the room, and has a whirling wind with a big red eye in the middle of it. He couldn't give a squat about that piddly god Din, but he's kinda in a no-choice position at the moment -- so he's going to play along, just like when he gave the pretty rings to the elves, and make nice-nice with the townsfolk so he can build up their trust while he amasses his power -- then he's going to take them down as an inside job -- and rule the world. Muhahahah! [if you don't know Sauron's back-story, plod through Tolkein's Silmarilion]

Attached: Sauron Level 34 Conjurer. His items may be more powerful than they should be -- accidentally bumped up their stats. :/
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File Type: zip sauron-34.zip (36.7 KB, 4 views)
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  #7  
Old 02-21-2011, 01:49 PM
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DeathKnight1728 DeathKnight1728 is offline
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This is a good idea, I will post 1 of my characters when i get back on tonight. Im currently working on a thief/sorcerer who is 21 right now. He can usually do levels 6 higher than him but i am going to try and do 8-10 levels higher (at nobears advice) once i get to the next difficulty. I love the fact that the difficulty gets more intense the higher you go. Unlike in other games, where there is no point in going past lvl 40.
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  #8  
Old 02-21-2011, 08:57 PM
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DeathKnight1728 DeathKnight1728 is offline
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This is the upload for the Character Repository. He is a lvl 21, Sorcerer/thief hybrid.
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File Type: zip Lyrano-Lvl21.zip (11.4 KB, 2 views)
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  #9  
Old 02-21-2011, 09:18 PM
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Crisses Crisses is offline
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See, I did it again. I had another idea for a character. What would a character that ONLY had passive skills look like? Is there a hybrid or pure-class that would be able to pull that off? I was inspired by this Level 100 video. I can't figure out whether this person is using any skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84AeXBv5flc
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  #10  
Old 02-21-2011, 09:49 PM
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DeathKnight1728 DeathKnight1728 is offline
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If they ever make the concentrations for the thief class reasonable, you could use a thief/thief with concentrations speed and double dagger mastery, plus combat reflexes, traps. You'd have the fastest dps ever and hack everything to pieces.

Edit-The character in the video is actually only using passives. You can do it with that combo as well. You use armor piercing, precision, bow mastery, critical aim, dodge, and eagle eye. Talk about a critical master. This guy could snipe like no other.

Last edited by DeathKnight1728 : 02-21-2011 at 09:53 PM.
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