The Balance Thread

[wasp3]

Originally Posted by Bluddy

Version 0.36 is a minor update.

The main thing in this version was me trying to find ways to fix Multishot -- it's very weak as is. My idea was really borrowed from others' suggestions: make a narrow cone of damage, like the crossbow from Jedi Knight.

It turns out though that the game is only built for very specific angles of those 2 extra projectiles: it can only go in 45 degree increments. I then tried to make those 2 extra projectiles lock onto random targets and failed miserably, once again due to limitations of the game. I finally settled on a compromise that actually makes Multishot a pretty good skill: you now have 4 extra arrows -- 2 fire at 45 degree angles and remain fairly useless, while 2 more fire perpendicularly to you (remember I'm limited to 45 degree angles) and are actually extremely useful albeit entirely unrealistic. Oh well -- at least it's worth investing in.

EDIT: My ancient laptop's fan died, so until I get the new replacement fan, you can expect either few updates to the mods or very minor updates. Sorry.

BTW I posted the first version of the companion mod in the Extra Balance Mod thread. Check it out if you want changes that are a little more experimental and somewhat more game-changing (possibly. No promises ).

> from ProjTrapLightningBallRandom to ProjShockBoltStraight, shoot 3 arrows, first in direction and two at random with nice moves or all at random if prefer, look more magical and work better for me

ProjectileType Straight
Life 4.0

Speed 125.0
DirectionChangeChance 0.1

LightColor SlateBlue
LightIntensity 30.0

[Bluddy]

Originally Posted by wasp3

> from ProjTrapLightningBallRandom to ProjShockBoltStraight, shoot 3 arrows, first in direction and two at random with nice moves or all at random if prefer, look more magical and work better for me

ProjectileType Straight
Life 4.0

Speed 125.0
DirectionChangeChance 0.1

LightColor SlateBlue
LightIntensity 30.0

Great idea to make it more magical looking. I'll check this out when I get the chance. I still think 5 arrows is the way to go.

[Bluddy]

Version 0.63 is ready.

This version includes a whole bunch of balance fixes. Monster HP, monster stats, I even tweaked armor and the armor formula. I've only just begun modifying monsters and their strengths/weaknesses, and I decided to take a break and get some balancing done.

I also fixed a bunch of bugs which will probably be fixed in the next patch.

As an example of some cool ideas with monsters, see if you can find the new versions of Temporal Flux I've added. Normally, if you're not a ranged char, temporal flux has no impact on you. The new possibilities for temporal flux make it such that some will be a slow motion area for everyone, others will speed everything up.

I want to make destroying each machine more interesting too. I was thinking the temporal flux machine will slow you (but only you) down more and more as you get closer to it. The darkness machine will cause you to be surrounded by pitch darkness as you approach it, etc. That's for the next versions though.

EDIT: One last balance tweak I want to mention is the density of monsters. I think it's a bit too high in DC, and now that I've learned how to modify it, I'll try to tweak it to reduce it. Just to compare, the monster density in DC is 2x what it is in DoP's open areas, and 1.3x DoP's dungeons. That's ok for the most part, in the enclosed dungeon spaces -- the walls prevent mobs from crowding in on you. But many dungeons have wide open areas. That's when you get an insane number of monsters. In this version is the first attempt to improve that.

[wasp3]

I have some ideas how to improve monsters enhancements like MinorFireResistance , MinorColdResistance, Stone skin etc to work in whole game, for example MinorFireResistance,
first add resistance >
StatChangeResistanceFire 50, then add % >
StatMultResistanceFire 0.25 instead to only add 100% resistance

i dont try it now and dont know if used in your mod, i just have idea

and another for items enhancements which use spell cast chance like ice storm , the numbers is some 0.07 % but it cast it too often, i like it more rare to be, i know how to adjust it but i dont know how well that work cuz on 0.03 % still cast it often

agree with that there should be more differences on each monster type

[Bluddy]

Originally Posted by wasp3

I have some ideas how to improve monsters enhancements like MinorFireResistance , MinorColdResistance, Stone skin etc to work in whole game, for example MinorFireResistance,
first add resistance >
StatChangeResistanceFire 50, then add % >
StatMultResistanceFire 0.25 instead to only add 100% resistance

I'm definitely going to modify these enhancements. Your idea is a good one (and it's actually used in the game in several places), I just need to check on a case by case basis what works.

and another for items enhancements which use spell cast chance like ice storm , the numbers is some 0.07 % but it cast it too often, i like it more rare to be, i know how to adjust it but i dont know how well that work cuz on 0.03 % still cast it often

The problem with procs on weapons, is that there's a huge variability between weapon speeds. If you have a fast weapon like a dagger, it's at least 2x faster than a two-handed axe. Any method you have to speed up your attacks or weapon will also give many more ice storms or whatever proc you have. Compare this to armor procs, which rely on the rate that monsters hit you. That's a pretty constant rate.

Additionally, you pretty much control your attacks. You just start a stream of attacks whenever you want, controlling the rate of procs. With armor, you're the passive actor. If a mob hits you, you'll get a certain rate of hits. When you're ganged up on by mobs, the rate will increase significantly, causing your procs to occur faster. From a gameplay perspective, this is ideal -- the proc 'comes to the rescue' when you need it.

I think the percentage on weapons should probably be adjusted by weapon speed. Absent that, it needs to be lowered significantly. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

[wasp3]

some questions about modding which i have no luck to found the answer and i hope to someone tell me

OBJECTS in game, doors, totem, obelisk, etc, how to adjust they stats, imunites to fire, cold, poison, base health for each individual ? can be resistant to physical damage ?

how to make entrances (stairs) to next level allways visible on minimap ? like the gold vain

archetypes , i cant found archetype for blot or what the hell this it and some other creatures, how to easy find them by name ?

[Bluddy]

Originally Posted by wasp3

some questions about modding which i have no luck to found the answer and i hope to someone tell me

OBJECTS in game, doors, totem, obelisk, etc, how to adjust they stats, imunites to fire, cold, poison, base health for each individual ? can be resistant to physical damage ?

how to make entrances (stairs) to next level allways visible on minimap ? like the gold vain

archetypes , i cant found archetype for blot or what the hell this it and some other creatures, how to easy find them by name ?

These questions should probably be in a new thread so you can attract some more people's attention.

Objects such as doors and obelisks are specified in objects.gdb. To make doors flammable, there's a hazardWood in hazards.gdb that is attached to every door. I don't think there's a way to make them resist elemental damage. Regarding gold veins, I don't know how they appear on the map right away. That might be hard-wired into the quest for them.

Totems, however, are monsters. You'll find them in monsters.gdb and they can have any resistance you want.

The way to search archetypes best is to first look in /Loc/English/global.trn for the name of the monster, then get the internal monster name, then look in archetypes.gdb. Not all monsters need this though.

[DeathKnight1728]

Originally Posted by Bluddy

Version 0.63 is ready.

This version includes a whole bunch of balance fixes. Monster HP, monster stats, I even tweaked armor and the armor formula. I've only just begun modifying monsters and their strengths/weaknesses, and I decided to take a break and get some balancing done.

I also fixed a bunch of bugs which will probably be fixed in the next patch.

As an example of some cool ideas with monsters, see if you can find the new versions of Temporal Flux I've added. Normally, if you're not a ranged char, temporal flux has no impact on you. The new possibilities for temporal flux make it such that some will be a slow motion area for everyone, others will speed everything up.

I want to make destroying each machine more interesting too. I was thinking the temporal flux machine will slow you (but only you) down more and more as you get closer to it. The darkness machine will cause you to be surrounded by pitch darkness as you approach it, etc. That's for the next versions though.

EDIT: One last balance tweak I want to mention is the density of monsters. I think it's a bit too high in DC, and now that I've learned how to modify it, I'll try to tweak it to reduce it. Just to compare, the monster density in DC is 2x what it is in DoP's open areas, and 1.3x DoP's dungeons. That's ok for the most part, in the enclosed dungeon spaces -- the walls prevent mobs from crowding in on you. But many dungeons have wide open areas. That's when you get an insane number of monsters. In this version is the first attempt to improve that.

Good patch bluddy! Just started playing it a bit. It seems as if the lower characters have more defense, which is a good thing as defense was what was killing glass cannons like the weaponmaster and assassin.

I have a question however, would it be at all possible in the future of course, to implement the sleight of hand experience gain for the trickster class or does shadow have to do that? I think that would not only be cool, but it would also make for some new and interesting class combos as fighting would be secondary. Aside from that, keep up the good work

[Bluddy]

Originally Posted by DeathKnight1728

Good patch bluddy! Just started playing it a bit. It seems as if the lower characters have more defense, which is a good thing as defense was what was killing glass cannons like the weaponmaster and assassin.

Yeah I think the attack/defense balance is getting better. Hopefully in the next patch Shadow will fix the bug that doesn't display the right percentage attack defense in champion/elite/legendary mode, and then it'll be more obvious when investments in defense/attack are necessary.

I have a question however, would it be at all possible in the future of course, to implement the sleight of hand experience gain for the trickster class or does shadow have to do that? I think that would not only be cool, but it would also make for some new and interesting class combos as fighting would be secondary. Aside from that, keep up the good work

It can't be implemented with modding -- there's a piece missing. It would have to be something coded to give you an XP reward if the specific monster that was picked as the target of hate dies at the hand of a monster you cast sleight of hand on within a certain amount of time (let's say 30 seconds). The way I picture this from a technical perspective is that slight of hand would activate a very short (5 second) status effect on the target monster that would cause an OnHit skill that would activate another, longer (30 sec) status effect on that monster's target that would enable the player to get XP on that monster's death. Currently that ability (getting XP from death) doesn't exist AFAIK.

BTW this would only work so long as XP is shared in multiplayer (which is the default setting), as there's no way to tell which player should get the XP.

EDIT: Actually this wouldn't work, as any monster killing the target mob would cause XP gain. We'd need more hardcoded stuff to make this work.

On a different note, I had an idea that, if it works out, could advance balancing quite a bit. My thought was to use extra hidden skill trees to reduce the bonuses for the default (non-hybrid) classes like rogue and warrior. The basic rule would be that different bonuses would be kept, but bonuses that are tripled (like strength multipliers x3 for the warrior) would max out at x2. If this works, the implications would be really good, because one of the hardest things in balancing the classes is getting a bonus that's good for 3 classes (default classes), ok for 2 classes (hybrid with 2 of the same bonus) and also works for 1 class. This change would mean that effectively, I only have to worry about 1 and 2 classes' worth of bonuses.

[Bluddy]

Version 0.64 is ready.

It's basically the realization of the idea I had in the last post. The warrior now has 2 damage boosts rather than 3, and the wizard also has 2 mana boosts instead of 3. I also worked on mana generation for the mage classes.

There were a couple of bugs that I fixed, such as the healer missing a skill that caused points to be shifted when switching back to vanilla, or the expansion classes not having the same bonuses as other classes.