The Feedback Thread

[dolf]

Originally Posted by Zangi

Been playing this a bit. Only up to level 14-ish.

Quality of Life 2:
I don't know why minions choose some gear over others. Also, some feedback on who gets first pick and so on.

I get pretty annoyed having to micromanage my rangers to equip bows rather then much weaker DPS daggers... Plus ya know, range.

This puzzled me at first, but I have come to the conclusion, clan members favor high value items. It's most noticeable when they have a common but strong item. while if you put a weaker common/rare item that is worth a lot, they will take that.

Played the game for a few days its quite addicting and very fun. I used to play Diablo 2 a lot, played that game for years. It's the golden standard in my eyes haha. For some reason most ARPG's have shyed away from having necromancers, so naturally that was the first class I chose in Zombasite. After playing this game and trying each class and reading some of the older threads of Din's Curse/Depths of Perils regarding skills. My highest character is level 15 so my experience is purely early game and I can only speculate about lategame and some of the advanced skills that I have not used yet.

For the most part, the strongest skill is often the very first ones you can learn. The advanced skills require numerous skill points per level up and are not even necessarily stronger than the beginner ones. And beginner skills can level up faster meaning more passive bonuses. For example Lightning Blast is the second strongest Lightning spell at level one! Thunderbolt does more damage but takes 4 skill points. The advanced Lightning skills get split up into separate bolts which I imagine might be good for crowd control but has a cooldown so for 1v1 it doesn't quite stack up, especially with the passive bonuses, the beginning skills are even stronger. At level two, Lightning blast does 6-18 damage and requires 3 skill points, its already stronger than thunderbolt which only does 6-13 damage requires 4 skill points. Ignoring gear +spell damage bonuses, level 2 lightning bolt has a +8% passive damage bonus, while the level 1 thunderbolt has +4%, which increases the damage gap even more. I saw some people's characters with level 21+ skills so there isn't a skill cap of 20, so you can just keep pumping lightning blast for less skill points than thunderbolt, and with the passive bonus per level, lightning blast gains damage even more. And even more puzzling, chain lightning does less damage than lightning blast and requires more mana. It can hit up to 3 enemies which isn't much. Fire Mage's Fireball does much more damage than Fiery Blast. Speaking of Fiery Blast, Lightning Blast skill description appears to have been modified from Fiery Blast because it mentions 0.8 Lightning damage per second which it doesn't do. And some of the skills that does not state it does damage over time but has the "# damage per second" in the description. When I looked at the "Show your character" thread, a lot of the characters especially the spellcasters had just the first skill leveled up and just level 1-3 for other skills. Melee characters being more versatile since a lot of skills only need one level to work. Whirlwind, Multistrike, Quake Slam, Ravage, Slaughter, Plate/Mail Armor, etc

Also I think some of the skill descriptions requires some cleaning up and clarification.

I decided to get the raise skeleton skills at first because I like summoning undead. It has a bunch of +% modifiers but doesn't state what it is based on. Well I checked my health and DPS. its much higher than the skeletons. I remember skeletons being weak in Diablo 2 before they buffed their stats. Also how come this game doesn't say in plain numbers how much damage your sklls do, or the stats of your summons? There are a lot of statistics in this game and I love that, the flat damage skills state how much damage they do but doesn't take into account the passive bonuses.

And some skills, have a +% elemental damage boost, but the skill itself does not state that it does any elemental damage. like Flaming arrow has does + fire damage, +% fire damage passive bonus. Shock bolt has +% lightning damage passive bonus but no + lightning damage in the description, but lightning mastery says it boosts shock bolt but it doesn't actually do any lightning damage if I read the description correctly. It only states that it boosts physical damage, and passive boosts to weapon and lightning damage, and a chance to stun.

Speaking of +% weapon damage passive, it only boosts the physical damage on weapons correct? Some spells do physical damage which is why I assume they don't have a +% physical damage passive, and made a +% weapon damage passive instead.

[dolf]

okay I noticed something that is probably a bug right?

Holy Symbol deals damage to myself every time I cast it.

And turning off Zombie mode does not disable Zombie quests, making them nigh impossible to complete. I haven't beaten a singe Zombie uprising quest with zombie mode off. at best I can find one or two zombies. I suspect the quest spawned the zombies but the other monsters already defeated them by the time I reach them. That makes adventurer win impossible, but most importantly one time I had a "cure insanity" quest that involved killing zombies. Having "Cure _____ by defeating zombies" quests with zombie mode disabled is problematic.

[dolf]

Okay just noticed something. Whenever I stop adventuring with another clan, ALL of my conjurer summons immediately stops following me and I have to summon everything all over again. Luckily the summons do not attack me, they have an orange bar, similar to clan member summons.

[dolf]

I discovered something amusing while using earthquake as a Ranger. Damaged cave-ins can move if there is a nearby healthstone. Then they regenerate their HP.

[Destro*]

Not sure if it's intended or not, but using crafting resources on relics bought from enemy clans in zones above level 100 (Well, I only tested in level 200 areas) increases the crafting cost on them past 100. This is inconsistent with other items that I've tested (dropped items basically, don't have a dropped relic to test yet).

I think it would make sense and is probably intended for the crafting costs to cap at 100(ish) regardless of where the relic is acquired from.

Not a big deal, but meh.

[Destro*]

I figured I'd give my take on an expansion for Zombasite for fun.

------------------------------

Rise of the overlords.

Rise of the overlords really makes the 'zombie threat' more tangible. The idea is that the zombies now have a leader that will perform extremely noticeable actions. In turn, the player will be given more tools for clan management and defense. This will make 'Zombasite' really feel like a zombie game.

Zombie Bosses!

As the zombie threat increases, new Zombie Bosses have a chance to be attracted to your area. Zombie bosses by default increase the accumulation of zombie threat.

Note: When new Zombie Bosses appear, an announcement should appear on the screen. It would be in the top-middle of the screen and be in large-bold letters. "ZOMBIE BOSS [MALORNE] HAS ARRIVED!". This display would be pretty cool to have for when new nemesis's appear in your area after you kill one as well. (And perhaps some other major notifications like clan destructions).

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Types of Zombie Bosses:

Plaguebringer: A powerful harbinger of curses that aims to whittle your clan into dust.
Location: Generally lives deep in dungeons.

Traits / Lesser Powers:

- Increases chances for zombie infections. Enables 'Stage 3' to occur.
- Plaguebearers and relevant monsters have increased spawn rate and chance to invade.
- Can curse player gear periodically.
- More cursed drops.

Greater Powers:
- Curse all clans members for 1-2 minutes.

Warmonger: The warmonger has only one goal, to destroy clans as fast as possible!
Location: The warmonger travels with a pack of zombies around the map. Not restricted by area at all!
Traits / Lesser Powers:

- Has higher leveled zombies in the pack.
- Recruits zombies into pack over time.

Greater Power: Berserk
- Increase movement speed, attack speed, cast speed, etc. (all stats) of zombies in pack for a 30 seconds. 5-10 minute cooldown.

Commander: Organizes zombies to make them more efficient.
Location: Abandoned towns.

- Commander itself starts at higher rank by default. (Rank 10-14 (or 13)).
- More zombies to kill relating to quests. More variable 'packs' can appear as well (Rank 1-9 monsters can spawn in packs).
- Increases zombie threat even faster than normal when around.

Greater Powers:
- Reinforcements: Can call reinforcements into town when being invaded.
- Stalwart Defense: Increases the defense of zombies within its 'headquarters' in town by a lot.

Evolutionist: The evolutionist aims to bring zombies to a higher stage of life.
Location: Wilderness/Dungeons.

- New mutations can occur. As zombie threat increases, mutations become stronger and more potent.
- Zombies can spawn/acquire more mods (like hunter/slayer, etc.) than normal. (Sergeant could spawn with 3 mods if it would normally only have 1. Major variants can also become more common.)
- Add mods to random zombies periodically on map.

Greater Power: Forced Evolution
- Spawn zombies with many mutations (even if not already enabled in area) in various areas of the map.
- Cast like once ever 3-10 minutes.
- Also forces some zombies to get even more mods than normal. (Some zombies may die because of this. (Can cause quests to fail, etc.))

Invader: A zombie that wants to destroy all clans.
Location: Abandoned Towns

- Increases chance of zombie invasions.
- Chance for zombie packs to appear with various ranks in them in wilderness.

Greater Power: Organized Invasion!
- Cause a zombie invasion on all clan towns.

Zombie God: A zombie that acts as a deity for all zombies.
Requirement: Needs zombie threat to be maxed before being spawned.
Location: Roams far areas.

- Is rank 16 by default. (Needs new rank, rank 16 added - God!)
- Always has sprint.
- Globally increases zombie stats while present.
- Zombies within a set radius of it will receive double bonuses. (One full screen?)

Greater Power: Holy Might
- Cast a powerful temporary buff on all nearby zombies. Buff can be 'holy shield' (immunity), sprint, deadly aim, life leech, combinations of those buffs, anything really.

Hoarder (for fun idea): A zombie that wants to have everything!
Location: Deep underground, abandoned towns or wilderness.

- Reduces drop quality and quantity globally while present.
- Makes food scarcer as well.
- Has high drop rate for items, food, etc. when killed.

Greater Power: Famine
- Steal items and food from clans occasionally.

**************************

These types of zombie bosses are just samples. More can be created of course.

What I really like about the idea of zombie bosses is that they make the zombie threat 'real' by creating real threats that need addressed. Consider this. One boss might be manageable. But, what happens when there are two? Three? Things would become hectic very fast. You wouldn't be able to just ignore the zombie threat very easily.

------------------------------------------------------------

- Few other ideas/feedback/suggestion. Some expansion-centric while others aren't. -

General Suggestions:

- Show amount of crafting materials in trade material before you have to click it. (Clan trades)
- Difficulty mod - No pause
- Difficulty mod - No info. Currently, the fog blankets your map difficulty mod is pretty weak. You can accept quests to get area names, put down like 10 markers and teleporters are visible on your map.
- Quell all taunts/chats/discussions/trades. Or, create a way to go straight to relations menu while skipping them.
- Add way to bind force move to left mouse click. (Could make force move a toggle) (Currently, I use a macro to hold down my f key permanently, lol).
- Add exp % stat to characters stat ui OR at least show then in character export.
- Have summons use other clans hearthstones even if you aren't allied. Have resurrected minions also use hearthstones, even in the wild.
- Option to disable left-click selecting summons, because it's really annoying for moving when you have a lot of them. Added F was nice, but having to hold F all the time is kind of lame.
- Item Mods: Indestructible (Infinite Durability / Synergizes with crystal, etc. mod), General Projectile Speed Mod (Counter temporal flux).

Venders:
- Wand vendors (Wanders). (Maybe a staff/wand hybrid vendor?)
- Relic vendors (Archeologist).
(Have to ask. Would be a great incentive to pay for expansion, haha).

Effects:
- Would be nice to have a swirling red aura (dark red on inside, light red on inside) for rank 8+ monsters and dark purple aura for rank 11+ (dark purple on outside, light purple on inside) monsters. Perhaps, rank 16 (God) could have a swirling white aura?
- Throw those sweet potion tiers that are on health and mana pots onto stat/resist/mf potions.

Quests:
- New Quests for intractable objects in town. Would require some ability to place items. (Perhaps use the clan member placement ui and allow the inventory ui to be opened and used to place items somehow? (Path of Exile does this with gems and their recent Atlas of Worlds quite well)
* Find various materials (fire totem splints + new items) to create a one-time detonatable bomb that you can place in your town. When clicked, it blows up a large area and does significant damage. (To repel invasions)
* Find materials to construct hearthstones/manastones/lifestones in town.
* Find materials to construct alters.
* Find 'artifacts' that can only be placed within specific areas of the town, but provide buffs to clan members within the area. (Health regen, dmg, etc.)

I have an idea for a class called "The Mentalist," but, meh, I think this is enough brainstorming for now. Perhaps I'll write it out another time.

Hope that this idea was enjoyed. I kind of had it in my head for a while, so figured I'd throw it out. I'm not expecting this to be implemented or anything, just another instance of me blowing through way too much free time.

Edit: Quick addition also. Would be really nice to be able to mod traits in asset files. I really want to continue working on my mod. BUT, the Scavanger trait is just WAY TOO OVERPOWERED! So, I can't really continue until I can remove it from the menu, make the cost too high or something. THANKS.

Edit 2: While I'm at it, might as well make my other modding relating suggestions.

Please allow "ItemNormalRandomMagicModifiers" to be set to above 0 without glitching out potions/relics/food (they all disappear entirely). I'd like for normal drops to have 1 item mod in my mod.

Please make it so that "Item[Rarity]RandomMagicModifiers" can be modified and work properly with arcane essence in the event that a lower tier rarity isn't exactly one less than the higher tier. For example, if common items have 2 extra mods and uncommon items have 4 extra mods, using an arcane essence on the common item will give it 3 mods (I think, I mean, I can't see so who knows?), but won't display the new mod. If you use another arcane essence, however, the rarity will upgrade to uncommon and the two mods will display.

[Cadfan]

Alright, well, this is a feedback thread, so...

I played Din's Curse, Depths of Peril, and Kivi, and enjoyed all three. Then I sort of lost track of soldak for a few years, and picked up Zombasite when it came out.

I'm not really happy with it.

The very short version- the game has a strong tendency to spawn ludicrously overpowered groups of enemies in regions that it told you were appropriate for your level. Winning stand up fights with them is downright impossible for many seemingly valid builds. The hit and run tactics I used to get through Depths of Peril don't work because they've intentionally been nerfed. Your personal teleporter only works once per region, and there's a very, very punishing adrenaline meter that exists entirely to prevent you from running away. Plus running away seems to cause enemies to get promoted. There are virtually no mobility skills in the game, which might make fleeing more interesting. Instead you just crawl away while your allies delay your foes, then your allies teleport to you, and immediately run backwards into danger, over and over.

If you're going to make the experience of crashing into enemies you basically can't beat and have to flee a part of the game, that's fine. But you have to give the players tools to make running away interesting, instead of a miserable crawl towards a warp gate while you desperately hope your precious allies don't get irreversibly slaughtered along the way.

On top of that the quest system no longer works as intended. Sure, monsters advance agendas, like in other games. But there are just SO MANY QUESTS that you aren't going to even read them most of the time. You'll just go to a map and clear it and expect the quests to get solved along the way. I quickly flat out stopped "accepting" quests. Why bother? You count as having solved them either way, and there's little benefit to having them tracked in your quest screen if you're just going to go to a map and clear. When there was a smaller number of quests active at once, the connections between quests could be understood. Is there a monster doing things? You'll notice it happening. Maybe a monster scouts your base, then builds something, then plots an attack. You can recognize this happening, and respond. As opposed to just ignoring it all because its hard to even recognize what's going on in the sheer volume of quests.

The game's diplomacy seems to want you to solve only the quests of the factions with which you want to remain friendly. But solving all the quests is how you get XP, and you complete quests by accident while you're traveling around. If you're planning on allying with the Mystic Brotherhood and killing their traitorous enemy Fang, but you notice that you accidentally completed eight quests for Fang... you're probably going to turn those quests in.

Just... a lot of little things like that. Plus new player unfriendly issues. Like having ten strength over the best hammer you've ever seen, changing regions, and being fifteen strength behind what you need to wield an equal level weapon. Or sending out a hunting party, something you've done a half dozen times in your first region, only to have them all be instantly killed in a map region that was below their level. Or having your weapon and shield vanish, seemingly permanently, for no well communicated reason. Or watching all the people you were supposed to save get killed off screen for reasons that aren't transparent (maybe you walked too close and they got insta gibbed by a nearby monster when they came out of off-screen stasis). Or having to spend time manually destroying broken, unrepairable town items, instead of just seeing them vanish.

There are still a lot of good things. The basic skill system, with its increasing cost per skill rank, is unquestionably superior to most other games. It creates a dynamic priority system in which low priority choices can eventually become high priority choices as skill costs shift. The combat system with its variety of attacks all with special effects that encourage diverse combos- also good. The abilities that are only available when other events occur- also good. There's a lot I really like. Maybe if I search I can find a build somewhere that avoids a lot of the negatives.

But the core experience isn't working for me. I got to like... level 75 or so? In Din's. Then I got frustrated with miniboss monsters who, thanks to a combination of unlikely traits, could one or two shot me. I got higher in Depth's, because I could cheese the teleporter, and built my character around doing so. I played that late game like a teleporting super assassin, warping in to kill bosses, and warping out the moment I was hurt. I'm probably dropping out of this one... a lot earlier. Maybe 15 on this character (plus a bunch of other test characters).

[Destro*]

@Cadfan

Awesome feedback. Thanks for the read. I've written up a response if you'd like to read. I tried to make it 'helpful' rather than 'argumentative', so I hope I succeeded!

I think that a lot of your disappointment is coming from a lack of game knowledge. This is not to be offensive at all, this is just my completely objective evaluation. If you were to make a Conjurer in accordance with my build guide (conveniently located at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frLk...ature=youtu.be), then I'm confident that most of your opinions on game balance would change from 'this is too hard/unfair' to 'this is a joke'.

As for quests, I agree completely. I imagine that the priority system is meant to handle quest organization. But, too many quests get stuck at rank 2/3 (I think, I mean I haven't really checked quests seriously in so long, lol), so the priorities become kind of meaningless. Also, the entire design behind accepting and solving quests is clunky and primitive. The Quest Dashboard should be redesigned to a sidebar, should show potentially desirable quests (higher priority ones), there should be a solve all button, universal quest view (or perhaps ability to view/accept quests) on map. IDK, like I could rant about this forever. The one thing I can praise, however, is the fact that you can see quests in areas very efficiently by hovering over area names (above minimap and on full map).

I'd also like to respond to a few of your points near the end of your post.

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"Like having ten strength over the best hammer you've ever seen, changing regions, and being fifteen strength behind what you need to wield an equal level weapon." -> Potions are the best way to deal with short-term stat issues. However, you should really try to store all +stat gear that you find that is relevant to gear that you desire.

In regards to stat differences, your example is a 25 stat difference, so there are a few scenarios I can imagine. But, first, I'll say this. Item stat requirements are meant to make you choose, so they are by default hard to accommodate. And, if one farms higher level zones, then the items will drop with higher stat requirements due to them being intended for higher level characters. This will make the already restrictive stat requirements feel even more restrictive.

As for your particular situation, I imagine that you're farming an area with a much higher level than you, so that the 'best hammer' you get as a drop is actually not the best drop that you could possibly get within a region. And, the best hammer that you get is actually intended for a much higher leveled character. Alternatively, you're just in a reasonably leveled area, and aren't keeping up with you stat allocations adequately because you've always had enough (aka your drops have sucked). So, when this new hammer that is actually meant for your level drops, you don't have enough str which leads you to feeling frustrated. In any case, all of this will be solved with knowledge & experience. (Knowing the stat requirements on items, knowing to store +stat items/potions, getting potions when you can, etc.)

"Or sending out a hunting party, something you've done a half dozen times in your first region, only to have them all be instantly killed in a map region that was below their level." -> Don't blindly send out parties! Scout the areas in advance and clear out the bigger threats (humanoids/higher ranked mobs, etc.), or join the party using its expedition transporter and clear while they are doing whatever.

"Or having your weapon and shield vanish, seemingly permanently, for no well communicated reason." -> Either a loss of durability (which is indicated on the screen pretty clearly imho), weapon swap (which I do admit can be easy to miss) or a bug. I'd love to know more about this.

"Or watching all the people you were supposed to save get killed off screen for reasons that aren't transparent (maybe you walked too close and they got insta gibbed by a nearby monster when they came out of off-screen stasis)." -> Not sure what this off-screen statis is that you're referring to. Also, if your party members are instantly getting off-screened, then good! That lets you know that you will probably die if you go over there. (Loner players don't have scouts :*() But, party members get a huge health bonus, so they really shouldn't be dying very easily at all. There are plenty of ways to buff them as well/make sure they are strong, but that's kind of getting off-topic and I don't want this to get too argumentative.

"Or having to spend time manually destroying broken, unrepairable town items, instead of just seeing them vanish." -> I can only imagine you're referring to guards in this instance. And, if so, then perhaps yes this would be a nice realism/QoL change. Though, I don't really use guards ever, so I don't really know how impactful that change would be.

"Maybe if I search I can find a build somewhere that avoids a lot of the negatives." -> Make a Conjurer, gg. It is objectively the most powerful build in the game for combat. (T1 Offense (would be T0 as well if not for a few niche poor combat scenarios) / T0 Defense). It just doesn't have utility (movement speed, magic find, etc.), so I can't really call it 'the overall best at everything'. Though, it's pretty close!

In any case, I hope that my words improve your game experience to some extent.

[Cadfan]

The items from the end were explicitly noted as new player issues. I've no doubt that an experienced player can avoid them.

I'm not sure what to say about the prospect that one can avoid the problems with screwy monster scaling by summoning monsters that take advantage of the same scaling.

[Destro*]

Yup, I saw they were. And, I still wanted to address them in the event that it could be helpful, as I explicitly noted as well. I wasn't sure if they were issues you experienced or not, but I did direct them toward 'you'. I admit that this was an assumption, so sorry about that! I will be more careful to use a neutral tone by using 'one' and 'this' instead of 'you/your' to direct my words toward the general population in the future. (Careless mistake on my part!)

---

As for how to respond to avoiding screwy monster scaling, well, I think you missed my point. I didn't pick it because of its offense, I picked it because of its defense (which is not directly related to minions as 'Gaseous Form' (the skill that matters) is in the Sorcerer tree) and because you were complaining about monster damage quite a bit.

But, on a larger scale, I was just providing one build as an example. I don't think the game has a very high base difficulty because you can play and die as much as you want to reach level 100, and unless you play like a potato, you will make guaranteed progress no matter what. Every build is viable.

I personally play my modded version of the game (hardcore/loner enabled) where I scale monster stats way above the norm (2.5x, 5x, 10x all-stat scaling for champion, elite, legendary difficulties currently) and its still too easy. In fact, my game knowledge is to the point that as long as I can deal damage to monsters and won't get 1-shot by unavoidable damage, I can get to level 100 just by virtue of mechanical skill and game knowledge alone. (And yes, I have played at ridiculous stat increases to test this point which is kind of why I can't enjoy playing the game anymore unless I'm going for a challenge like all-difficulty mods (which I can't beat :*(,)). Different builds can tolerate different stat increases... but in regards to the base game? Everything is viable fo sho.

Kind of a long and drawn out point, but well, there it is!